Page 26 | Russell Brand

Wassapp · 2023-09-16T21:07:16+00:00

AIBU to think... 'here we go again?' Anyone watching? I've always said 'innocent until proven guilty' but also 'there is no smoke without fire'. Having been sexually assaulted myself, one of the stories seem so similar to mine. What's your thoughts? This is the most confusing post, I know. I just don't know how I feel.

TheShinmeister · 17/09/2023 14:05

Because of the channel 4 documentary how could this now go to court? How would RB get a fair trail?

neverbeenskiing · 17/09/2023 14:06

Jimmy Savile is the most notorious child-abuser in british history and any comparison to this case is utterly disgusting, in my opinion.

FFS, it's not sexual abuse Top Trumps. Acknowledging that there are common themes in two abuse cases, or that two abusers may have used a similar modus operandi, or there were shared contributory factors present that allowed them both to evade justice is not "disgusting". It's not disrespectful to the victims either. It's actually an essential component of safeguarding to consider commonalities within cases occurring in the same industry, organisation or system. That's how you get away from the "just one or two bad apples" narrative and enable real systemic change.

RB and JS are not the same, because no two individuals or cases of abuse are exactly the same. But there absolutely are common themes that emerged from the documentary, and these are important and shouldn't be ignored.

RamsesTheChub · 17/09/2023 14:08

CherryMaDeara · 17/09/2023 13:58

Of course they’re comparable.

Savile had women brought to his dressing room, Brand had women brought to his dressing room.

Savile abused women live on air, Brand abused women live on air.

Savile groomed girls for sex, Brand groomed a 16yo for sex.

Savile abused female staff working for him, Brand abused female staff working for him.

Savile made crude sexual jokes about women live on air, Brand made crude sexual jokes about women live on air.

Savile had his lawyers threaten women who accused him, Brand has his lawyers threaten women who accused him.

Savile raped women, Brand raped women.

I can’t believe I had to spell this out for you.

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Savile raped children - many many children btw - why can't you say it? I do hope no child ever comes to you and says they were abused by a woman.

I think we can both agree both men were protected. Shame some think Brand should not be subjected to legal proceedings in case he isn't found guilty.

CherryMaDeara · 17/09/2023 14:09

TheShinmeister · 17/09/2023 14:05

Because of the channel 4 documentary how could this now go to court? How would RB get a fair trail?

It’s been done many times before.

Look at Chris Dawson. He was accused of killing his wife in Oz and the podcast about the case got 60 million downloads and strong media attention prior to the court case.

He was still found guilty of murder and sex with a minor.

DysonSpheres · 17/09/2023 14:09

TheShinmeister · 17/09/2023 14:05

Because of the channel 4 documentary how could this now go to court? How would RB get a fair trail?

Good question.

Probably not now, is the answer.

DysonSpheres · 17/09/2023 14:11

Or should I say. The ability to have a fair trial has been eliminated.

neverbeenskiing · 17/09/2023 14:11

TheShinmeister · 17/09/2023 14:05

Because of the channel 4 documentary how could this now go to court? How would RB get a fair trail?

Do you know how rare it is for rape and SA cases to actually make it to court? None of these cases would ever have progressed to court. His word against theirs, even with physical evidence he would have claimed they consented and that would be that. The CPS would quickly determine there was no realistic prospect of conviction. As has been stated upthread many, many times that is why investigative journalism of this nature is so vital and why taking part in the documentary was the safest and most realistic prospect of justice for these women.

Radyward · 17/09/2023 14:13

Im sorry the world and its mother knew he was a sex addict and fetishist. Come on. Like he made absolutely no secret of it plus has bedded supposedly 1000's of women. Like so what. Thats no crime to me.like who made dispatches the new police. Why wasnt it handed over to the police. The producers searched for " victims" innocent til proven guilty. The only thing he is guilty of is being a sex Addict and shadowy obscured victims claims. I feel so sorry for him-his wife and kids.this trial by media has to stop
Take the whole up with police.
Cancel culture at its best.
Every one last night who applauded him after the show was anti cancel culture not per se pro RB.
He will not be prosecuted as insufficient evidence yady ya but his career is in ruins

Hufflemuff · 17/09/2023 14:13

pickledandpuzzled · 17/09/2023 11:43

The kind who thinks her daughter will leave home if she doesn't? Move in with RB? Move in with another sleaze instead?

It's the balance of staying in your child's life at all costs, v allowing them to be even more vulnerable.

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No sorry I don't agree. As a parent you have to look at the bigger picture - if that's what this mum did then her daughter wouldn't be in this situation as an adult, appealing to get the age of consent increased to 18. Shes traumatised for life because her mum was too scared to say no or didn't see anything bizarre about a 32 year old sending a car to collect her 16 year old daughter from school, for sex!

I doubt her reaction would have been the same if he wasn't famous... that's the sad part - all these men are allowed to get away with it all because they're on the TV.

Karensalright · 17/09/2023 14:14

I think C4 will already have been liaising with the police, and it is possible if not probable that cases that have not been reported in the documentary are the ones that may be taken forward

Radyward · 17/09/2023 14:14

Hatchet job pure and simple

oioicheeky · 17/09/2023 14:15

MetaverseMavis · 17/09/2023 02:32

To me the most astounding information was 16 yr old Alice telling her mum she met 30yr old RB and her mother allowing the date to happen and on another occasion driving her to RBs home and allowing her 16yr old to stay over with him. What shockingly poor judgement by the mother. Who enabled RB with her lack of boundaries for her daughter

Yes, this struck me as odd and very sad as well.

It was very sad when Alice said she was all dressed up and had make-up on, but she wasn't a woman. She was very much a child dressed up for dinner

I can't understand what her mother was thinking.

Alice said she thinks the age of consent should be raised to 18 and I would tend to agree.

It's just sad because she wasn't alone without people looking out for her. She had a mum, who was obviously an involved parent, but she allowed her 16 year old to date a 30 year old, even going so far as to drive her to his flat.

And yes, to the people who say the blame lies with the rapist, of course. But up until the sexual assault, it wasn't rape. It was consensual, and legal as she was 16. It doesn't make it right, hence agreeing the age of consent should be raised to 18, but also here, I do wonder why her mother allowed this.

DysonSpheres · 17/09/2023 14:15

neverbeenskiing · 17/09/2023 14:11

Do you know how rare it is for rape and SA cases to actually make it to court? None of these cases would ever have progressed to court. His word against theirs, even with physical evidence he would have claimed they consented and that would be that. The CPS would quickly determine there was no realistic prospect of conviction. As has been stated upthread many, many times that is why investigative journalism of this nature is so vital and why taking part in the documentary was the safest and most realistic prospect of justice for these women.

Edited

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It's not justice. It's not justice because we haven't determined before a jury of peers that a crime was actually committed.

It's 'allegations', and even the press are being careful to use this word.

It is most definitely character assassination in the court of public opinion. Yes. But that is not Justice.

Being as it's public opinion, many will rightfully, conclude that he isn't guilty regardless. Because opinion isn't a means of establishing facts.

TheShinmeister · 17/09/2023 14:17

Radyward · 17/09/2023 14:13

Im sorry the world and its mother knew he was a sex addict and fetishist. Come on. Like he made absolutely no secret of it plus has bedded supposedly 1000's of women. Like so what. Thats no crime to me.like who made dispatches the new police. Why wasnt it handed over to the police. The producers searched for " victims" innocent til proven guilty. The only thing he is guilty of is being a sex Addict and shadowy obscured victims claims. I feel so sorry for him-his wife and kids.this trial by media has to stop
Take the whole up with police.
Cancel culture at its best.
Every one last night who applauded him after the show was anti cancel culture not per se pro RB.
He will not be prosecuted as insufficient evidence yady ya but his career is in ruins

Exactly

CherryMaDeara · 17/09/2023 14:18

Radyward · 17/09/2023 14:13

Im sorry the world and its mother knew he was a sex addict and fetishist. Come on. Like he made absolutely no secret of it plus has bedded supposedly 1000's of women. Like so what. Thats no crime to me.like who made dispatches the new police. Why wasnt it handed over to the police. The producers searched for " victims" innocent til proven guilty. The only thing he is guilty of is being a sex Addict and shadowy obscured victims claims. I feel so sorry for him-his wife and kids.this trial by media has to stop
Take the whole up with police.
Cancel culture at its best.
Every one last night who applauded him after the show was anti cancel culture not per se pro RB.
He will not be prosecuted as insufficient evidence yady ya but his career is in ruins

More victim blaming. Women are not mind readers, how should they have known he was a rapist?

Original poster

Wassapp · 17/09/2023 14:19

oioicheeky · 17/09/2023 13:23

Agree.

I've watched the programme and I still don't understand why this has been deemed the right way to go about it.

I have no real opinion on RB. I've never really been a fan of his humour and don't find him attractive (I know many women do, or used to).

A lot of his behaviour is in bad taste, and (if the stories are true) his treatment of women is poor. But that's not illegal.

The rapes, if true, are illegal, but this should be being dealt with by the police. And I can't understand the relevance of all the other stuff to do with his sex life and how many women he has shagged. If a woman is raped, that's not an issue. If a woman who is raped routinely shags 5 men a day, that's not relevant, she was still raped. So I'm not really seeing why this is all being dragged up with RB.

Also, I can't help but think of the whole Caroline Flack situation. That stemmed from an illegal act (she used violence on her boyfriend), and because of online vitriol, she ended up killing herself.

This mob mentality doesn't sit right with me; why isn't this being dealt with by the police?

Also, the similarities with Saville - eccentric, overtly sexual, does a lot for charity. Yes, they are massive similarities. But I'm not sure that's enough to also say that he's guilty of the same crimes.

In brief; he might be guilty of rape. But a) I don't think this tv programme and all the hype was the right way to go about it and b) I think a lot of the other stuff is irrelevant.

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I'm absolutely fucking outraged that you dared to bring Caroline's name into this.

Totally fucking different scenario.

OP posts:

CherryMaDeara · 17/09/2023 14:19

RamsesTheChub · 17/09/2023 14:08

Savile raped children - many many children btw - why can't you say it? I do hope no child ever comes to you and says they were abused by a woman.

I think we can both agree both men were protected. Shame some think Brand should not be subjected to legal proceedings in case he isn't found guilty.

Show quote history

What the hell are you on about?

Are you making me out to be a Savile apologist?

Can you point to where I have excused Savile?

beguilingeyes · 17/09/2023 14:21

I haven't read the whole thread but when Savile was first exposed it was revealed that the police had dismissed allegations because they were 'only' coming from women.
The false accusation/gold-digger myth is very pervasive.

MrWhippyyy · 17/09/2023 14:22

Radyward · 17/09/2023 14:13

Im sorry the world and its mother knew he was a sex addict and fetishist. Come on. Like he made absolutely no secret of it plus has bedded supposedly 1000's of women. Like so what. Thats no crime to me.like who made dispatches the new police. Why wasnt it handed over to the police. The producers searched for " victims" innocent til proven guilty. The only thing he is guilty of is being a sex Addict and shadowy obscured victims claims. I feel so sorry for him-his wife and kids.this trial by media has to stop
Take the whole up with police.
Cancel culture at its best.
Every one last night who applauded him after the show was anti cancel culture not per se pro RB.
He will not be prosecuted as insufficient evidence yady ya but his career is in ruins

Fucking hell.

The man is hiding in plain sight. So because he has fetishes he can’t be a rapist? Jesus Christ. No wonder those women were anonymous. I would be too. How horrific.

RamsesTheChub · 17/09/2023 14:24

CherryMaDeara · 17/09/2023 14:19

What the hell are you on about?

Are you making me out to be a Savile apologist?

Can you point to where I have excused Savile?

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You're the one throwing out accusations of apologists, no one else.

ehupo7 · 17/09/2023 14:24

Hufflemuff · 17/09/2023 14:13

No sorry I don't agree. As a parent you have to look at the bigger picture - if that's what this mum did then her daughter wouldn't be in this situation as an adult, appealing to get the age of consent increased to 18. Shes traumatised for life because her mum was too scared to say no or didn't see anything bizarre about a 32 year old sending a car to collect her 16 year old daughter from school, for sex!

I doubt her reaction would have been the same if he wasn't famous... that's the sad part - all these men are allowed to get away with it all because they're on the TV.

Show quote history

You obviously haven’t read the actual account from the woman. Her mum got her to text him and tell her her age, thinking that it would put him off. It didn’t, which she was upset by. However as her daughter was 16, her mum didn’t feel able to control her whereabouts or stop her. She went to his home and walked her daughter to the doorstep so she could meet him and he could see she was from a loving family who cared about her (the daughter was going there anyway, and she didn’t want to turn a blind eye). When they arrived, he kissed the mum on the lips, which she was very upset by. Her daughter continued seeing him, which she didn’t feel able to stop (and legally she couldn’t).

Even a quick google could have told you that before speculating.

Puffypuffin · 17/09/2023 14:25

Radyward · 17/09/2023 14:13

Im sorry the world and its mother knew he was a sex addict and fetishist. Come on. Like he made absolutely no secret of it plus has bedded supposedly 1000's of women. Like so what. Thats no crime to me.like who made dispatches the new police. Why wasnt it handed over to the police. The producers searched for " victims" innocent til proven guilty. The only thing he is guilty of is being a sex Addict and shadowy obscured victims claims. I feel so sorry for him-his wife and kids.this trial by media has to stop
Take the whole up with police.
Cancel culture at its best.
Every one last night who applauded him after the show was anti cancel culture not per se pro RB.
He will not be prosecuted as insufficient evidence yady ya but his career is in ruins

Ah yes, you're absolutely right, he can't possibly have raped or assaulted anyone and even if he did, they should have expected it eh? They must have known what he was like?

I feel desperately sorry for his wife and family, but him? Nope.

Fucking terrifies me that people like you walk among us.

Castlerock44 · 17/09/2023 14:25

When the establishment want to silence someone for speaking the truth this is what they do. Trouble is people will believe it.

TheShinmeister · 17/09/2023 14:28

beguilingeyes · 17/09/2023 14:21

I haven't read the whole thread but when Savile was first exposed it was revealed that the police had dismissed allegations because they were 'only' coming from women.
The false accusation/gold-digger myth is very pervasive.

Make sure you read the whole thread or you’ll get told off like I did

newnamethanks · 17/09/2023 14:31

'The establishment' has as much interest in RB and his mutterings as it has in you or I. RB is well known as a sleazy sexpest with malleable political opinions. You have been Brandwashed.