To not be surprised to see threads on LGB being questioned now?!

[SuperNewMe]

Just typed a reply and the thread disappeared quickly (makes a change as when it's trans related ones they stay?!)
So it's not a TAAT, it's just to say that after all the anti trans rhetoric you see on here sometimes, it comes as absolutely no surprise that there are now more threads attacking lesbian and gay couples ( not natural was the phrase used)
Not to mention one still on the go as far as I'm aware that refers to LGBTQ as "special rainbow people"
YABU you're imagining things
YANBU things seem to be ramping up against LGBT people in general
(I say this as someone who's straight and not trans)

@Tandora you’re really not up to speed re Stonewall I’m afraid. Even its founders are horrified by how homophobic it now is.

Any response to the "sexual racists" remarks made by the CEO?

Do you think lesbians are bigoted and just need to get use to "girl dick"?

Guess what I also did.....

You keep giving opinions and want poster to agree.

Yet have provided no proof just hand waving of how women discussing womens rights and child safeguarding if is anti-trans.

Where is the rainbow people thread link so that we can examine it and point out the problem posts?

Where are the threads questioning being lesbian or gay that you have seen recently?

But it would be great if there was a handy screen shotable vote where MN is declared to be homophobic.

What "gay issue" are you trying to explore because so far you have wobbled from trans righs are LGB rights and trans righs are womens rights so you appear to be trying to piggyback "trans" on to all other rights.

L and G and B and T are all different groups not one homogeneous blob with a single focus or a single aim. And yet you appear to want to shoehorn women into the group too

What do you want LGBTAIQ2SWM+ ?

Here is a trans issue and a "gay issue" in the Irish prison system.
A male in the female prison wants the law of being recognised as female be applied to strip searching. The female employees objected to being subjected to sexual harrassment by their employer when they were instructed to allow(demand) an inmate expose "her female penis" to them.
One of the employees is a Lesbian.

Opinion : a lesbian prison officer should not be obliged to look at an exposed penis ( female or male) in her work place.

Would you care to discuss the issue?

This. 100 times.

As in, the T has been separated from LGB on here and elsewhere as in a "look, it's them, not us?"
They see themselves separate.

You've got it the wrong way round. It's not that T had been separated from LGB, it's that they didn't go together in the first place. T was forced-teamed with LGB (see the Dentons document). Sexuality is not an identity, and vice versa.

Please share the words in their actual context (and not couched in a load of transphobic propaganda) and I will attempt to explain their meaning.

Do you think lesbians are bigoted and just need to get use to "girl dick"
I think your language is utterly foul and I reject it wholeheartedly.
no one should ever be questioned or coerced about their sexual practices. Everyone has the right to accept or reject any sexual encounter absolutely as they please. I believe that any decent person feels the same.

I do think a person’s expressed sexual preferences can absolutely be a reflection of prejudice, however, (we can clearly see this in how black women and fat women and disabled women are often represented as sexually undesirable) and I do think it’s transphobic and sexist to define a person wholly in terms of their genitals .

How does it have its roots in homophobia? One thing is dislike of people who shag people of the same sex, and the other is people who think that they can change sex. There is an historic relationship between lgb and t in that gender none conformity was accepted by lgb people more easily than the general populace - but that’s it.

Unless by rooted in you mean that plenty of people just lump the weirdos together and hate all of it?

@SuperNewMe why are you surprised there are homophobes about? Did you think we lived in some kind of radical acceptance utopia?

@Tandora - On Woman’s Hour, former CEO of Stonewall, Nancy Kelley, likened lesbians who rejected including transwomen in their “dating pool” to “sexual racists.”

How much more homophobic can you get? The head of Stonewall saying that lesbians’ same-sex attraction was a version of racism.

Not to mention one still on the go as far as I'm aware that refers to LGBTQ as "special rainbow people"

This was you ^
Do you have a link?

And while you are here can you give your opinion on what Q stands for if it not L or G or B or T?

What in your opinion are some key markers for what puts someone
into Q but not L and/or
into Q but not G and/or
into Q but not B and/or
into Q but not T and/or
One or two would be great.

Just so we know what rights should attach to the Q's

@SpidersAreShitheads brilliant post, thank you.

I do think a person’s expressed sexual preferences can absolutely be a reflection of prejudice, however, (we can clearly see this in how black women and fat women and disabled women are often represented as sexually undesirable) and I do think it’s transphobic and sexist to define a person wholly in terms of their genitals .

Wow so you think lesbians who refuse to consider dating a transwoman because of their penis alone, are transphobic?

And you really can't see that this is homophobic?

This literally denies lesbian and gay people the right to same sex attraction.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4890726-new-sports-club-at-dcs-high-school-only-open-to-lgbtq-pupils-and-their-allies?page=1

This is the thread with the ‘special rainbow people’ reference. And that is a red herring as far as I’m concerned.

Read the whole thing.

@SpidersAreShitheads brilliant post.

There’s the infamous India willoughby clip here. About a minute and a half in. Note use of the word ‘penetrate’ too. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PsJxpvGzo3E

Have also seen men pretending to be women saying stuff along the lines that because they have to ‘put effort in’ to being a woman then that makes them ‘better’ than actual women.

Men are always trying to make out their better than women (people are always trying to make out they’re better than others) so of course some of them men want to make out they are better women than actual women. They are of course no better than the common garden misogynist.

As above:

no one should ever be questioned or coerced about their sexual practices. Everyone has the right to accept or reject any sexual encounter absolutely as they please. I believe that any decent person feels the same.

I do think a person’s expressed sexual preferences can absolutely be a reflection of prejudice, however- we can clearly see this in how black women and fat women and disabled women are often culturally represented as sexually undesirable - and I do think it’s transphobic and sexist and wrongheaded to define a person wholly in terms of their genitals.

in terms of the first point, I do think it’s ok (and in fact important) to have conversations around this, as difficult as they can be. For example, I recently had a row with my DP as he casually declared that he “isn’t attracted to black women”. I suggested his comments were informed by racism. he became furious: he insisted his preferences were biologically driven and had nothing to do with racial prejudice. I entirely disagree , both with his assertion he is not attracted to black women (I know full well there are any number of black women he would meet in the world and be wildly attracted to) , and with his belief that his opinion - “black women are not attractive” - is biologically, rather than socially and culturally produced.

These conversations are really difficult and complicated and don’t lend themselves well to a discussion on social media, but I hope this at least makes some sense.

@Tandora you seem to be saying that lesbians might be transphobic for not wanting to date men who say they are women?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

100% agree @lifeturnsonadime

So if im reading the post you quoted correctly it is apparently bigoted and sexist for straight women and gay men not to be attracted to vaginas and ditto lesbians and straight men not to want sex with someone who had a penis?

I mean seriously WTAF???

@Tandora that sounds homophobic to me.

"and I do think it’s transphobic and sexist and wrongheaded to define a person wholly in terms of their genitals"

Lesbians are same SEX attracted.

and I do think it’s transphobic and sexist and wrongheaded to define a person wholly in terms of their genitals.

@Tandora

You don’t seem to understand what sex and sexuality is. It’s not just genitalia but that is obviously a part of it. Women and men are sexually and physiologically different. You cannot overcome your same sex attraction because a man believes they’re a woman enough yet are still a straight male who wants relations with a female born woman.

No male born person can be a lesbian, they are the wrong sex. Only those of the female sex can be lesbians, it has nothing to do with what sort of person they are outside of their physiology.

I do think a person’s expressed sexual preferences can absolutely be a reflection of prejudice, however- we can clearly see this in how black women and fat women and disabled women are often culturally represented as sexually undesirable - and I do think it’s transphobic and sexist and wrongheaded to define a person wholly in terms of their genitals.

Black women and fat women and disabled women are all women. Transwomen are men. It's not just a question of what characteristics an individual finds sexually desirable - saying that a subset of males are a type of women is offensive.

Lesbians who don't want to have sex with people with males bodies are not equivalent to your partner saying he doesn't fancy black women. Suggesting that lesbians might or should want to have sex with penis people is denying their lesbianism. It's homophobic to suggest lesbians should want to date penis people, and misogynist to suggest males in dresses are a type of women. It's the current year version of ' they just haven't found the right man yet'.

She literally said it in a TV interview. You seem to think you know a lot about Stonewall but you missed that event. It was widely reported at the time.

I think your language is utterly foul...

The inverted commas make it clear it's not "my language" but I am glad you think it's foul, I believe that makes you a transphobic bigot. It's so easy to fall into that category these days.

Dating and attraction is inherently discriminatory, there is nothing wrong with ruling someone out of your dating pool on the basis that, for any reason, you do not find them attractive. Few 25 year old men would be attracted to me, a plump, middle aged woman, attractive; I'm surprisingly fine with that.

No one is defined by their genitals, that would be quite reductive - a bit like describing women as menstruators, but genitals are a pretty good indicator of biological sex in nearly all humans. There is nothing sexist or transphobic about material reality or the binary nature of biological sex.

You are quite correct but don't expect the "GC" crowd on here to admit it for a nanosecond. It's the iceberg of prejudice.

Left wing, long time gay rights campaigner, definite gender critical here.
I haven't seen it luckily and would absolutely report if I had.
LGB has nothing to do with T and it's a clear tactic to lump them together, to scare left wing, reasonable people into worrying that they are not being reasonable by refusing to accept humans can be 'born in the wrong body'. And agree with other posters, trans ideology is incredibly damaging to gay and lesbian rights and identities.

@EmpressaurusOfCats is a lesbian so surely allowed a view on Stonewall even if you don't agree, no, @Tandora ? There are many lesbians and bisexual women on FWR.

Your comparison with your DH not being attracted to black skin is entirely facile, as lesbians are women attracted to women, not men, and in any case people aren't subject to the Equality Act in who they fancy.

@Notpooryet You are quite correct but don't expect the "GC" crowd on here to admit it for a nanosecond. It's the iceberg of prejudice.

Oh aye. Labour supporter here who campaigned against section 28, supported gay friends “coming out” in our work place in the early 90s, went on marches against Apartheid, wrote supporting letter for Amnesty International international prisoners for years, hate the Tory’s with a passion and will never vote for them etc etc etc. and I’m very typical of a GC woman. You obviously know very little about the “GC crowd”.