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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not be surprised to see threads on LGB being questioned now?!

318 replies

SuperNewMe · 15/09/2023 23:15

Just typed a reply and the thread disappeared quickly (makes a change as when it's trans related ones they stay?!)
So it's not a TAAT, it's just to say that after all the anti trans rhetoric you see on here sometimes, it comes as absolutely no surprise that there are now more threads attacking lesbian and gay couples ( not natural was the phrase used)
Not to mention one still on the go as far as I'm aware that refers to LGBTQ as "special rainbow people"
YABU you're imagining things
YANBU things seem to be ramping up against LGBT people in general
(I say this as someone who's straight and not trans)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Ohthatsabitshit · 16/09/2023 01:45

I haven’t noticed a surge in homophobia or negative attitudes to same sex attraction. Trans isn’t anything to do with sex though, is it? I thought it was outwith your sexual preferences?

AnSolas · 16/09/2023 01:47

Tandora · 16/09/2023 01:44

Can you please link the thread you are refering to so that we can all read the posts ourselves

I wish I could, but it was taken down by HQ within an hour or so because of the overt homophobia.

Reported and removed which is great.

How about any which have not been removed, do you have any active links?

Tandora · 16/09/2023 01:57

AnSolas · 16/09/2023 01:47

Reported and removed which is great.

How about any which have not been removed, do you have any active links?

No, as I said (in agreement with OP) , my observation is that the threads attacking lgb people are always removed v quickly.

AnSolas · 16/09/2023 01:59

Ohthatsabitshit · 16/09/2023 01:45

I haven’t noticed a surge in homophobia or negative attitudes to same sex attraction. Trans isn’t anything to do with sex though, is it? I thought it was outwith your sexual preferences?

When one believes that a male becomes a woman then one must also believe that the penis becomes a female penis

(That is the Irish prison problem.
A male in the female prison wants the law of being recognised as female being applied to strip searching. The female employees objected to being subjected to sexual harrassment by their employer when they were instructed to allow(demand) an inmate expose "her female penis" to them)

If one believes one is a woman (even if one has a female penis) once one is attracted to females one must be a female lesbian.

Ohthatsabitshit · 16/09/2023 02:03

I think it’s immaterial what one believes ones “essence” is. When we use the term homosexual we mean people of the same sex being attracted to each other. Trans isn’t about that.

SuperNewMe · 16/09/2023 02:04

I just see the increase in homophobia overtly displayed and think.no shit, sherlock.

OP posts:
AnSolas · 16/09/2023 02:08

SuperNewMe · 16/09/2023 02:04

I just see the increase in homophobia overtly displayed and think.no shit, sherlock.

Proof of what you see is what is being asked.

Not proof of your opinion of what you see.

Can you even provide one link?

SuperNewMe · 16/09/2023 02:23

@AnSolas I gave you the benefit of the doubt when you just left a.dot and no reply presumably waiting for answers.
Lots to say on trans replies though
Seems not so much to say when it comes to "gay" issues too.

OP posts:
SuperNewMe · 16/09/2023 02:25

Can you even provide one link?
Did you even read the OP?

OP posts:
CherryMaDeara · 16/09/2023 02:43

SuperNewMe · 16/09/2023 02:04

I just see the increase in homophobia overtly displayed and think.no shit, sherlock.

What homophobia? Can you give examples?

SpidersAreShitheads · 16/09/2023 03:00

Ladybrrrd · 16/09/2023 01:07

I've failed to see a single way in which they are explained to me in a way to that isn't fear mongering or disrespectful to my friends. I've never been called transphobic for saying no to transwomen for dates, expressing my gender critical thoughts in a respectful manner, or anything else. And if I'm naive, people have been for a long time. Trans people are not new. They didn't just suddenly pop out of the woodwork. People expressing themselves in masculine and feminine terms is not new.

What is new is this utter contempt and disrespect. Celebrities dedicating their entire online lives dressing up every single song thing that s trans person had done and vilifying them. Well, at least any contempt that has made headlines, which is running dangerously close to causing trans people the right to change names, wear what they want, be legally recognized by their gender, access healthcare, and access spaces they have been accessing for many years. It has lead to increases in psychical attacks. It is 'othering' a group of people. And yes, it is leading to a risk to LGB rights as well.

That's what scares me.

Just because you haven't encountered any difficulties when turning down trans women for dates doesn't mean it doesn't happen though, does it? It's extremely clear from the many, many experiences being recounted by lesbians all around the country that it's a real problem. And if you don't believe them, just look at social media - there's plenty of evidence of these beliefs if you want to go looking.

Also, I don't think anyone believes that trans women are new.

But what is new is trans women claiming to be "better than women" and "the real women", and pushing women's voices out of spaces that we've fought so hard to gain entry to.

What's new is trans women insisting that they are the most marginalised in society, and that therefore their rights trump all others.

What's new is gangs of trans women - and their allies - attacking women who are trying to hold private meetings.

What's new is trans women trying to force their way into rape counselling centres that have been set up specifically for biological women because the regular rape counselling centre told women to "reframe their trauma" and accept male-bodied counsellors.

What's new is lesbians being told that they're transphobic for refusing to date someone with a "lady dick".

What is new is women in places of employment being told to step aside because they don't understand the real struggles of being a woman (search for Ginny's (?) thread on here - it's eye-opening).

What's new is professors being hounded out of universities for daring to say that biological sex is real.

What's new is trans women being included on board rooms or in executive positions, and that being counted as female representation.

What's new is trans women insisting on gaining entry to single sex spaces, thus rendering them unusable by those who need a single sex space eg/sexual assault survivors, or women with certain religious beliefs.

What is new is trans women in prisons and hospitals who go on to assault and rape vulnerable women in those institutions.

What's new is trans individuals trying to wipe out the right to have a same sex preference - effectively a new kind of homophobia.

What is new is trans women who were only ever average when participating in male sport suddenly entering into women's sports and robbing women of their victories, and in some cases, robbing them of the right to participate.

Conversely, what isn't new is male-bodied individuals acting aggressively towards women, erasing women, and speaking over women.

I have lots of gay friends in real life. I don't actually know any trans people. I chat to some trans women on Twitter, and the ones I have discussions with are lovely. They're very clear that they're not biological women, they're trans women - and the two are not the same. I can treat those trans women with absolute respect because they are true allies of women and aren't trying to claim to be something they're not.

Trans women like India Willoughby are vile, nasty and aggressive - and underlines the absolute bollocks that women are having to deal with.

I don't understand why someone feels they have a trans identity, none of us do. I don't really care how someone dresses, or what name they call themselves. I do care about the rights of women. I do care about women's sport. I do care about women's dignity, privacy and safety. I agree there needs to be some kind of solution - but it shouldn't automatically mean that women have to step aside and act as some kind of shield against male violence.

On the subject of public bathrooms, why do trans women need protection from male bodied individuals - but women don't qualify for the same protection? There are genuine trans women, and there are those who are sexual predators - just look at the figures from HM Prison Service. How do we protect our women and girls from trans women who are predators? That was the whole point of having single sex spaces - safety from aggressive male-bodied individuals. And now we're being forced to share our spaces with any male-bodied individual who chooses to enter them. And yet, if we raise these valid issues respectfully, we're shot down as transphobic. Speaking about women's rights has somehow become transphobic.

Women are rightfully angry and fucked off. We've fought too long and too hard to just give up our voices all over again.

It's not about hating trans individuals. I honestly don't really care what someone else does or how they lead their life. But when their rights trample all over the rights of women, I do care.

What pisses me off is that trans individuals and women should be allies, but when there's a whole group of them trying to claim what isn't theirs and depriving us of our safety and our rights in the process, it's never going to happen.

Devilsmommy · 16/09/2023 03:25

@SpidersAreShitheads that was the most succinct and well worded post I've ever read on here about the trans issue. 👏👏👏👏👏 and I'm not being sarcastic, you put some bloody good points across

EmpressaurusOfCats · 16/09/2023 04:21

Oh yes, the LGBTQ+ school sports club thread. Where a few posters, me included, have been repeating over and over and over again that the concerns here are around gender ideology, especially if it’s being pushed on young lesbians, and other posters are ignoring every point we make and shouting ‘homophobia’ ad infinitum.

Romiii · 16/09/2023 04:28

No I’ve not noticed any anti LGB threads or comments. In real life I don’t hear anti LGB comments either, although I’m sure they exist

Notmyfirstusername · 16/09/2023 05:22

DifficultBloodyWoman · 16/09/2023 00:41

They are separate.

L, G and B = sexuality (who you are attracted to/want to have sex with)

T = gender (don’t get me started on defining that)

From what I can see Gender is about personality types, especially the ones about liking space and liking cake?
I put that the OP is not being unreasonable, because I’ve seen what’s happening in Florida with the seeming erasure of any mention of non heterosexual families in schools.
I do wonder if some of the more militant TRA are working hand in hand with the right wing in order to push back hard fought for freedoms for LGB and other non traditional families by equating peak trans with peak LGB. Unfortunately, using the voices of vulnerable children and young adults as cover. After all quite a lot of the most vocal seem to be interested in the exact sex they were before the gender change.
Not forgetting that some have historical sex offences against the women and children they are asking for increased access to. A name and gender change would be quite beneficial in hiding their past and incorrectly reassuring vulnerable women and children that they are safe, as they wouldn’t show in a sex offender google search under their new name.
Those transgender women with historical sexual offences can then be left alone to informally mentor a young struggling transgender male, who could quite easily be the next victim. The far right gets to blame it on LGB by lumping it with the T when it comes to light, and amongst the uproar we have a fight against repealing the laws on gay marriage in certain states and conservative countries.
I probably need to take my tin hat off, but if Florida is the template, things could reverse pretty quickly, even in places with large LGB populations.

Codlingmoths · 16/09/2023 05:25

I would hope homophobia gets reported, I would report it if I saw it.
you say in your opening post ‘special rainbow people’—are you calling this homophobic? I would interpret someone saying this to mean a whole range of people including people who think dyeing their hair blue and saying I’m demisexual means they are instantly a marginalised person who deserves extra consideration even if they went to public school and mummy and daddy have bought them a london flat, or people who think you should be able to parade your sexual fetishes and nude self in front of children or people who think there is absolutely literally no difference between a female person and a male person who says they are a woman on Tuesdays. It’s not homophobic, none of those people are necessarily gay or lesbian.

Tramlines · 16/09/2023 05:39

@SpidersAreShitheads if i could give you a million likes for your post, I would. Absolutely spot on.

Noicant · 16/09/2023 05:48

Nope genuinely not seen it, but if someone is doing that they should definitely be reported. I’m sorry but I just don’t think that the majority of people are bothered about same sex attraction. 30 years ago maybe, but generally people don’t care anymore. Thats not to say that there aren’t some godawful people out there or that people don’t experience homophobia but trying to imply that people who have concerns about womens rights must also be homophobic is inaccurate.

Theres a difference between people who are same sex attracted and those who think their feelings and beliefs trump others safeguarding and rights.

This post smacks of forced teaming.

Tartareistasty · 16/09/2023 05:56

Lots of LGB are talking about this on twitter. Some are very angry that it took them decades to not be seen aa "danger to children" and TRA is now coming up with slogans like "we are coming for your children" and essentially does what many homophobes accused LGB before - child grooming. The bullying of lesbians and cancellations of their meet ups is shameful.
I am with them on it. It should not be under one umbrella, LGB and the others are a different thing.
It's fucking sad times for LGB and women imho

FarEast · 16/09/2023 07:46

It’s the reverse - the so-called “anti-trans” posts are generally pointing out the homophobia of transactivism.

TrashedSofa · 16/09/2023 07:50

Screamingabdabz · 16/09/2023 00:28

Oh god here we go… ‘anti-trans rhetoric’ 🙄

…by that do you mean ‘perfectly reasonable concerns voiced by women about their rights and dignities being infringed by men’?

I would superglue myself to a wall for LGB rights but this is different. Only the feeble minded or people who genuinely hate women refuse to see it.

That's almost invariably what people who say that mean, yes. Know your place, women.

Tandora · 16/09/2023 07:51

TrashedSofa · 16/09/2023 07:50

That's almost invariably what people who say that mean, yes. Know your place, women.

🙄😭

Tandora · 16/09/2023 07:57

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

KimberleyClark · 16/09/2023 08:07

But what is new is trans women claiming to be "better than women" and "the real women", and pushing women's voices out of spaces that we've fought so hard to gain entry to.

Have you got any actual examples of transwomen making these claims to be better than women and the real women, because saying transwomen are women is not quite the same thing?

Waitwhat23 · 16/09/2023 08:08

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

I clicked on your link, thinking it might be an interesting discussion with pertinent points but it appears to be a random 'queer comedian', saying 'it's the same thing! It's the same thing!'

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