Really stressed on holiday

[holidays23]

Hi everyone

Don't know how to navigate this so appreciate any advice.

We are away with 3 couples, we've been friends for over 12 years. We've all got our children with us and we are staying in a villa.

One of them, my DH is super close to, think plays sport together, we're regularly at each others houses, they work together sometimes etc.

Friend has a bit of a control issue/jealous/doesn't trust anyone. We will call him Adam and his wife Jane.

I was by the pool with our baby, other friends and their kids and my Husband was upstairs using the toilet and Jane went inside. Adam immediately came out from the kitchen asking where my Husband and his wife were, I turned to say my Husband was in the toilet. He kept saying "where are they?" I said I don't know where Jane is but DH is using the toilet. He rushed indoors and came back outside with Jane.

I said to Jane when we were together in the kitchen "Adam had a bit of a panic about you and DH being in the villa together without anyone else?" and Jane said "He doesn't trust anyone, he's an idiot" and shrugged it off. She also said that he commented to her that I was "allowed" to walk around the villa in a bikini (only when popping in to grab one of the kids bits or drinks etc) and unless she is laid down on the sun bed or in the pool, she has to wear her cover up because he gets jealous.

Today, we went out and the kids ran through some sprinklers, Jane did too whilst laughing and Adam made a comment about he hopes her white T-shirt dries soon as it was now see through and inappropriate (she had a bikini top on under a T-shirt).

It's making me really anxious and unhappy to be around, he's also constantly on at their kids, smothering them in suncream every 5 minutes (literally), shouting at them to stop going underwater in case they get water in their lungs? Shouting because their 12 year old walked ahead of us today and got on an escalator without an adult.

He also keeps making comments about me not watching our baby in the sun and fussing that she's hot (she was laying on the sunbed next to me asleep with a hat on, a UV protection full swim suit including legs and arms plus factor 50 suncream and the big umbrella up, completely in the shade). I regularly go and sit indoors with her in the air con or my DH does but she's not showing any signs of being hot. She's drinking her usual amount of milk plus cool boiled water (about 3oz throughout the day) and it's making me paranoid.

I've always known that he has anxiety and can be jealous but I didn't realise it was to this extent.

He also makes multiple "jokey" comments about the women in our friendship group like joking that our baby is really his and not DH's, if one of us bends over he'll make a sexual "joke", that kind of thing but because he's the "big joker" of the group, nobody bats an eyelid where as it makes me uncomfortable.

I told DH when we were in bed about him asking where him and Jane were and DH laughed and said "of course he did, this is Adam remember" and shrugged it off. I'd be devastated if one of my best friends questioned why I was indoors with her Husband but DH is so used to him being like this, it doesn't phase him.

Any ideas on how to navigate this for the next week because it's really getting on my nerves.

The thing is and I don't mean this to come across as rude or blunt but by you all ignoring his disgusting and abusive behaviour you are all actually enabling him to carry on with that behaviour.
Why has no one pulled him up on it? I appreciate it would make for an atmosphere on what should be a nice holiday but until someone actually pulls him up on this it will just continue and maybe even get worse.
You can't really moan about someone's constant bad behaviour but then not do anything about it and expect change that's actually the definition of insanity.
If it was me I would have said something a long time ago and preferably not joined them on the holiday, although I appreciate that's too late for you now or I would say something as soon as he acts inappropriately and then make an effort to then spend time with just my own little family exploring or go off with just the other couples and literally spend as little time as possible and try and avoid that vile human.

Had similar on a recent holiday, ppl telling me what to do and what not to do, I just turn round and said shut up you don't pay my bills so therefore I will do what I like within reason of course. In future perhaps just go away with your husband and kids. I got a upcoming trip coming and this time friends are excluded , just want to see how it will be like without friends etc.

I think I would try and get out without them and spend as much time away from them as possible. Needless to say, I wouldn't want to go on holiday with them again.

like others, maybe not that useful, but I had an acquaintance suggested/implied us a few times jokingly that he fathered my new baby… honestly, the first time I was just speechless but now after the third I will simply say: “sorry this joke is a bit past it now”. (Yeah, I know, “sorry” shouldn’t feature in the sentence but I won’t be able to help myself)

can you try a few of these maybe? Like when he gives an uninvited advice on your baby “thank you for the advice” . And just leave it hanging in the air … ie, not act on the advice at all… 😬

good luck and try to focus on the holiday if at all possible

We go on holiday on our own as a family. Maybe I'm not very patient but I would find your scenario so unrelaxing for a holiday. You sound like a considerate person and I do think that a family holiday is the only time of the year when you can, and should, be able to do as you please without having to fit in with the demands and sometimes unreasonable behaviour of other people. In the past, we went away with people whose parenting was very different, who wanted to eat yesterday's leftovers for dinner when we didn't etc etc. It became an awkward trip that felt like hard work instead of a break. Go on holiday without other people in the future. My advice in the meantime is to go out on your own with your lovely little family as much as possible on this trip.

natura · Yesterday 08:37
Very short, clear, uncomplicated responses, the same time every time.
"Adam, stop it."

FerretFarago · Yesterday 10:51
“Adam, you don’t have to be a sexist, controlling arse all the time, take a day off”

Aworldofwonder · Today 17:54
I would call him out every single time.
Why do you keep telling me how to parent?
Why you implying there is something going on between our spouses?
Why do you think it's ok to say that to me?
I don't like being in your company while you're abusive to Jane; why would you come on a group holiday if you have no consideration for the other people here?

I liked all these, but I am too slow to come up with an appropriate retort in the moment.
And it is important not to give him anything to hang an argument on and avoid the point.

Many years ago, I was also unduly nervous when subtly and repeatedly attacked by a man who was friendly most of the time. When I had been wrongfooted and left dumb a few times, I found an all-purpose phrase that I practiced and learnt:
I fixed him with a hard stare, and said quietly but forcefully,
"Don't ever speak to me like that again!"
There were other people around, but no-one noticed. He tried to complain to one or two about how I had upset him, but no-one could see what he was going on about. What had I said that was so wrong, after all?

He has never tried it on again.

wrt Adam and Jane, you can't interfere, but you can befriend their children. It doesn't have to be anything very obvious. I was once in their situation, and most people turned a blind eye to it. I still remember lovingly the few people who really saw me and made me feel valued.

This would be the last vacation I spent with this couple. You could still be friends with them, just don't go on a long, stress filled vacation with them, or anyone else who creates tension during what should be a relaxation time.

He’s had an affair and is projecting.

Why is he criticising your parenting when he is allowing his child to miss school? Won't he get a fine?

I would have to say politely ‘Adam, MY baby is wearing a sun suit and is sat in the shade… please stop criticising my parenting and just worry about you own.. then laugh!!
as for sexual jokes… I’d have to say ‘Adam that isn’t appropriate!… if he says he’s only joking, just say ‘yes I know but if any man here made that joke about Jane, you’d hate it!!’

in my experience, men THIS paranoid about their partner cheating or other men looking at her usually are the ones doing the cheating, and because they manage to hide it so well they then think everyone could be sneaking around and getting away with it too… but it’s up to her if she’s happy to be controlled and told what to wear…. But I wouldn’t tolerate the comments directed at you/your kids and I’d speak out before they worse! He’s a controlling prick who has a poor attitude towards women!

He sounds abusive. Honestly the first thing I'd be doing is checking that Jane is OK - if you're that stressed and anxious after a short holiday, I can't imagine how she's feeling!

Gross. I feel for you

Let it go for the sake of this holiday , so as not to create tension for everyone else. When you get home, send him a message saying he put a dampener on the holiday, it’s an insult that he implied your husband is chasing his wife, he is going to obliterate his children’s mental health unless he reins in the micromanaging, to keep his nose out of your parenting and that you find his comments on your body an unwarranted and disgusting double standard. Say you will never holiday with them again and that his behaviour is shocking.

You shouldn’t have to put up with this behaviour to keep the peace, what about your peace? And tbh a lot of the time grown adults act the way they do because everyone else have always kept quiet to keep the peace or because it’s awkward, that’s how they get away with it for so long.

Don't do this stuff it's also inappropriate. Be yourself. Speak your truth

He is a bellend. Let any comments about how you parent go over your head. Ignore the sexual references for now and if I were you don’t book another holiday with him in future.

So OP should cut their holiday short because one person thinks he's funnier than Russell Brand? Why should women be made to feel uncomfortable. They need to present a united front and shame him and his BS

I was married to a jerk like that. One day I got home from work about 10 min late and he started giving me a ration of bs about some fictitious boyfriend. I snapped and said, “damn, I’m good. I managed to get off the freeway, go to his house, have sex, take a shower, dry my hair, get dressed again, get back on her freeway, and get home, all in 10 minutes. Damn I’m good.” He didn’t say a word. He just stood there like the jerk he was. I filed for divorce not long after that. That was almost 4 decades ago.

Someday Jane may come to the realization that she doesn’t deserve the abuse. I really hope she does. Hopefully you will be there when she’s ready. I’ve helped quite a few women leave when they were ready to go over the years.

I don’t put up with jerks like my ex or Adam anymore. I would definitely be all up in your DHs grill if he allowed you to deal with this man’s behavior alone. It’s not a boys will be boys thing. It’s rude and abusive.

she was so long in there with a female friend because she was upset and didn't want to come out looking like she'd been crying that he accused her of having an affair with the female friend and it all blew up

You and your husband are enabling and facilitated this man's abuse by continuing to hang out with him and not confronting him about his behaviour.

Attributing his abusive behaviour to his anxiety is a massive red herring. He may well have anxiety problems but he is also, entirely separately, a nasty piece of work and a complete shit. Your husband really needs to wake up to this and stop this 'Oh well, that's just Adam, he's like that' bullshit and he needs to fucking call him out, repeatedly and loudly.

OP said "There was a fall out about 7 years ago between another couple (friends) but it's a bit outing, let's just say Jane was drunk and crying in the pub toilet saying she wanted to leave him and she was so long in there with a female friend because she was upset and didn't want to come out looking like she'd been crying that he accused her of having an affair with the female friend and it all blew up."

I asked OP this already, but I would love to know if the whole group cut this couple off?