Really stressed on holiday

[holidays23]

Hi everyone

Don't know how to navigate this so appreciate any advice.

We are away with 3 couples, we've been friends for over 12 years. We've all got our children with us and we are staying in a villa.

One of them, my DH is super close to, think plays sport together, we're regularly at each others houses, they work together sometimes etc.

Friend has a bit of a control issue/jealous/doesn't trust anyone. We will call him Adam and his wife Jane.

I was by the pool with our baby, other friends and their kids and my Husband was upstairs using the toilet and Jane went inside. Adam immediately came out from the kitchen asking where my Husband and his wife were, I turned to say my Husband was in the toilet. He kept saying "where are they?" I said I don't know where Jane is but DH is using the toilet. He rushed indoors and came back outside with Jane.

I said to Jane when we were together in the kitchen "Adam had a bit of a panic about you and DH being in the villa together without anyone else?" and Jane said "He doesn't trust anyone, he's an idiot" and shrugged it off. She also said that he commented to her that I was "allowed" to walk around the villa in a bikini (only when popping in to grab one of the kids bits or drinks etc) and unless she is laid down on the sun bed or in the pool, she has to wear her cover up because he gets jealous.

Today, we went out and the kids ran through some sprinklers, Jane did too whilst laughing and Adam made a comment about he hopes her white T-shirt dries soon as it was now see through and inappropriate (she had a bikini top on under a T-shirt).

It's making me really anxious and unhappy to be around, he's also constantly on at their kids, smothering them in suncream every 5 minutes (literally), shouting at them to stop going underwater in case they get water in their lungs? Shouting because their 12 year old walked ahead of us today and got on an escalator without an adult.

He also keeps making comments about me not watching our baby in the sun and fussing that she's hot (she was laying on the sunbed next to me asleep with a hat on, a UV protection full swim suit including legs and arms plus factor 50 suncream and the big umbrella up, completely in the shade). I regularly go and sit indoors with her in the air con or my DH does but she's not showing any signs of being hot. She's drinking her usual amount of milk plus cool boiled water (about 3oz throughout the day) and it's making me paranoid.

I've always known that he has anxiety and can be jealous but I didn't realise it was to this extent.

He also makes multiple "jokey" comments about the women in our friendship group like joking that our baby is really his and not DH's, if one of us bends over he'll make a sexual "joke", that kind of thing but because he's the "big joker" of the group, nobody bats an eyelid where as it makes me uncomfortable.

I told DH when we were in bed about him asking where him and Jane were and DH laughed and said "of course he did, this is Adam remember" and shrugged it off. I'd be devastated if one of my best friends questioned why I was indoors with her Husband but DH is so used to him being like this, it doesn't phase him.

Any ideas on how to navigate this for the next week because it's really getting on my nerves.

Yes, I'd be focusing on the children - what does the 12 year old think hearing all of this? Normalising the behaviour so its perpetuated for the next generation? Ugh. Making sexual comments about every female - think about your daughter when she is older. Does your husband want some pervy man making comments like that about her? Because that's what Adam will do. Only way to deal with it is deal with it now - call it out every time, every comment. And your DH needs to donit as well.

Going to go against the grain and say don't start the comments as suggested.

He's clearly an arse but his wife is in an abusive relationship and you are supposed to be her friend. If you go in hard he'll be able to blame you and isolate her.

Play Adam buzz word bingo in your head and reward yourself every time he says exactly what you predicted.

Ask him if he is okay because he seems anxious. Go out as much as possible. And check if Jane is okay once you get home and he is hopefully out.

I think the men in Adam's life including your DH need to tell him his behaviour is unacceptable.

Maybe not on this holiday, maybe at the pub or if they are playing sport and having a chat after it.

Essentially they have been perpetuating his behaviour for too long. Bloody hate controlling men and their batshit double standards.

I wouldn't put up with suggestive comments about you though. He is a dickhead

I’d keep out of his treatment of his wife during the holiday but would meet up with her later.
I’d ask him why he’s trying to suggest you’ve had an affair with him - re paternity
on your parenting - I’d say we’re happy with how we parent our children thanks.
on the bending over- I’d say that’s really sleazy and off putting.
Be matter of fact with him

Very short, clear, uncomplicated responses, the same time every time.

"Adam, stop it."

Over and over again, every single time. Don't engage in any further conversation about it, and don't get into an argument.

And make it very clear to your DH that he needs to step up and do the same.

I'd have to call him out on it every time. I've done it with a friends husband, he doesn't do it around me any more.

Well it’s clear to see that men get away with being shits like that because those around them tolerate it. They tolerate his control of his wife, his kids, his sexist and sexually harassing behaviour. Men like this exist because other people tolerate them, laugh along or say with a giggle, ‘Adam! What is he like!’.

Meanwhile it’s harder for women like Jane to truly understand how shit her husband is ( and leave him) when her mates tolerate and laugh along with her H’s shit behaviour, thus normalizing the horror show she lives with.

I’d try to explicitly state to Jane that you are there if she ever needs to talk.

This is the way I’d end up having to go. Oh I’d try not to, but it would just build up and I’d have to blow back at him tbh @holidays23

“listen Adam, you can make all the crazy rules and restrictions you like for your wife, that’s her problem if she chooses to put up with it. You can not and will not make comments about what I do/think/say/wear, what my h is doing or not doing or anything related to any aspect of my parenting. I’m not interested in your views or opinions, you’re bonkers and I’ve had enough.”

I find it rather depressing that all of the men in this group are hapy with this misogynistic, sexist bullshit aimed at their wives/partners.

This! Or something like "Adam, give it up" or "give over".

Just say that at every comment directed at you.

I agree with PPs who said maybe the "big" convo happens at another time rather than the holiday. Maybe meet with Jane some other time afterwards and just say to her you're a bit concerned at Adam comments not least it sets a bad example for their son and is she OK? Does she need support?

Ignore it, laugh it off, move on. Enjoy your holiday. He seems like a very anxious person

You don't have to feel that you can't blame him for that, tell him he is being a twat and move on

You don't have to let him get to you, if your husband is not cheating what he says doesn't matter, if your parenting is fine again why worry?

I'd have to say something every time. When he questions your parenting – 'we know what we're doing'. When he makes sexual innuendos – 'I don't appreciate you saying that'. If he continues, your DH needs to pull him to one side and tell him to STFU.

Ah yes that classic - it’s the woman’s fault

My sister started a relationship with a man similar to this. His behaviour was terrible. I called him out early in their relationship, when he made a comment about being able to squeeze past her fat arse. I told him that it was an unacceptable way to speak to my sister. My partner now husband also called him out on it. My family all laughed off what he said.

It was then he turned on me. He would pick on me all the time. He would say things like he bet I was a real slut back in the day. Anytime my partner or myself tried to stand up to him, my family would say he was only joking. My whole family except my Dad took his side and it was a really unpleasant experience. In fact my family isolated us from a lot of family gatherings saying that it was because we couldn't get on with this guy.

My Dad died early in their relationship and this guy just got worse. He made me feel I shouldn't even be at my Dads funeral. They eventually split up a few years after that and my sister blamed me for the split. She said he felt I was always judging him.

Sometimes people only see what they want to see. If this guy is higher up the pecking order in your group, I can guarantee that you may start to be shoved out the group, if you take him on.

I have gone no contact with my family, not just because of this but for a number of reasons. Protecting my daughter from the toxicity of my family was the main reason. The no contact was many years after this. I was way down the pecking order in my family. When my Dad died it just got worse.

OP It is really difficult to be around this, and perhaps don't go on holiday with them in future. Holidays are more intense than a night out.

It is also crucial that you sit your husband down and tell him how awful this has been for you. Your husband needs to take this seriously and be on your side. I would have lost my mind if my partner wasn't completely on my side. My Dad was great too. This guys behaviour is not normal. Your husband and the others have grown to accept it but you are right.

OP if people don't call him out on his behaviour then how is is wife supposed to understand that she is supported for the way she feels.

Sounds like everyone just accepts his behaviour.

I would never put up with the comments he is making nor should you.

This isn't anxiety, it's abuse and your husband needs to stop allowing Adam to frame it as anxiety. I feel so sorry for Jane that her husband feels so comfortable to act openly in this way around close friends because he knows you will not react and it just confirms any thoughts she may have that you will not see his behaviors as bad if she tries to leave.
Please have a discussion with your husband and make a plan for how you will handle this in future because this is not ok and allowing his friend to act like that will absolutely be seen as condoning his behavior.

Adam is abusing his wife. I wouldn’t laugh.

After every comment I would just say" I thought we had come to spain ( or wherever) and not 1974"

I agree about not blowing the whole thing up. Everybody will blame you, he'll tantrum and be "hurt" and "not understand", plus he'll call you misogynistic names just slightly within earshot that he'll then deny if you call him out and you'll just feel really frustrated.

But my post above stands about recognising this as abuse. You DH needs to get his head around that fact too. Ideally your DH and the other guys will stop making excuses for his behaviour.

This is not "anxiety" either btw. Do you know how many people have anxiety? I'll tell you now that there are another three people in that villa who likely could receive an official diagnosis: his wife and two kids. This behaviour is a choice, one he's made for a long time, and his mates, who don't want to be unkind, have understood it as coming from his past, so effectively supported him in it! It doesn't matter whether it comes from his past, present conditions, a chemical imbalance or an alien infusion: it's abuse and no abuse is acceptable.

“Adam, you don’t have to be a sexist, controlling arse all the time, take a day off”

Anxiety is not an excuse to be abusive, which Adam is. I dread to think what he's actually like with his wife and kids in private. It is just so awful that all the other men, including your husband are enabling his behaviour.

He is so controlling of his wife as he doesn’t trust himself, I can almost guarantee this sleaze will have an affair at some point. Your DH and you should stand up to this crappy perv when he says stuff like that.

I really dont think antagonising him is the way to go. I tried that at one stage and it just makes men like that worse. It's enjoyable at first to watch them squirm but they win in the end with this tactic. They have a way of making you look like the bully and them playing the victim.

Ok, fair enough @Theblacksheepandme. Just walk away and keep a wide berth from him from now on.

You don’t have to facilitate your DH’s and Adams get together in future, just go low contact from him yourself.