Really stressed on holiday

[holidays23]

Hi everyone

Don't know how to navigate this so appreciate any advice.

We are away with 3 couples, we've been friends for over 12 years. We've all got our children with us and we are staying in a villa.

One of them, my DH is super close to, think plays sport together, we're regularly at each others houses, they work together sometimes etc.

Friend has a bit of a control issue/jealous/doesn't trust anyone. We will call him Adam and his wife Jane.

I was by the pool with our baby, other friends and their kids and my Husband was upstairs using the toilet and Jane went inside. Adam immediately came out from the kitchen asking where my Husband and his wife were, I turned to say my Husband was in the toilet. He kept saying "where are they?" I said I don't know where Jane is but DH is using the toilet. He rushed indoors and came back outside with Jane.

I said to Jane when we were together in the kitchen "Adam had a bit of a panic about you and DH being in the villa together without anyone else?" and Jane said "He doesn't trust anyone, he's an idiot" and shrugged it off. She also said that he commented to her that I was "allowed" to walk around the villa in a bikini (only when popping in to grab one of the kids bits or drinks etc) and unless she is laid down on the sun bed or in the pool, she has to wear her cover up because he gets jealous.

Today, we went out and the kids ran through some sprinklers, Jane did too whilst laughing and Adam made a comment about he hopes her white T-shirt dries soon as it was now see through and inappropriate (she had a bikini top on under a T-shirt).

It's making me really anxious and unhappy to be around, he's also constantly on at their kids, smothering them in suncream every 5 minutes (literally), shouting at them to stop going underwater in case they get water in their lungs? Shouting because their 12 year old walked ahead of us today and got on an escalator without an adult.

He also keeps making comments about me not watching our baby in the sun and fussing that she's hot (she was laying on the sunbed next to me asleep with a hat on, a UV protection full swim suit including legs and arms plus factor 50 suncream and the big umbrella up, completely in the shade). I regularly go and sit indoors with her in the air con or my DH does but she's not showing any signs of being hot. She's drinking her usual amount of milk plus cool boiled water (about 3oz throughout the day) and it's making me paranoid.

I've always known that he has anxiety and can be jealous but I didn't realise it was to this extent.

He also makes multiple "jokey" comments about the women in our friendship group like joking that our baby is really his and not DH's, if one of us bends over he'll make a sexual "joke", that kind of thing but because he's the "big joker" of the group, nobody bats an eyelid where as it makes me uncomfortable.

I told DH when we were in bed about him asking where him and Jane were and DH laughed and said "of course he did, this is Adam remember" and shrugged it off. I'd be devastated if one of my best friends questioned why I was indoors with her Husband but DH is so used to him being like this, it doesn't phase him.

Any ideas on how to navigate this for the next week because it's really getting on my nerves.

I agree! If he was criticising your parenting, he’s hardly the perfect parent taking a senior school age pupil out of school in September.

He sounds like the kind of husband who is always having, or thinking about having, affairs, and deflects by accusing his friends and trying to control his wife.

Everytime Adam criticises your parenting, smile sweetly as ask him "Shouldn't DC be at school?"

He sounds really annoying and I wouldn't go on holiday with him again!

Off topic, but don't think your baby needs to be wearing spf 50 & a full body UV suit if in the shade!

He's definitely projecting his own perverted thoughts. I'd be tempted to say don't judge everyone by your own standards...

He makes jokes about your kids being his and not your husband's? That's grim. I think I'd either 'joke' back that you'd never have sex with someone as grim as him, ha ha, and he aught to look closer at his own kids as his eldest has a bit of the look of the postman about him. Or deadpan ask him why he is trying to insinuate infront of everyone that you've had sex, and then when he says it's a joke tell him you don't get it and ask him to explain why it's funny.

But there are always arseholes in this world, what I'd actually be most concerned about is why on earth your husband has actively chosen to be good friend to someone like that and spend lots of time with someone who thinks they can control their wife to the point of telling her what clothes she is allowed to wear in different areas of the house and telling her she can't be inside a house with another man, and someone who oggles his mates wives and gf. All of us have friends with some traits we can overlook because the friendship is otherwise good but being a controlling misogynist is a few levels up from 'always late' or 'takes ages to respond to messages'

Wow what an awful man. Honestly I’d just try to distance myself from him. Sounds like Jane is in an abusive relationship might be worth checking in on her casually when you two are alone. I doesn’t help that everyone around him seems to enable this appalling behaviour. Also his helicopter dad behaviour sounds entirely performative and indicative of someone who actually spends very little time with his children but wants to give the outward impression of a protective strong male figure. You can call
him out and would encourage you to so but I appreciate that can be hard in group settings… perhaps frame it as a joking response to prevent a volatile situation as he rarely seems to be challenged by his entourage.

Adam sounds repulsive on several levels.

Towards the end of the holiday, tell him this. Also let him know that if you want parenting advice, it won't be from a lairy, abusive, controlling predator like him.

Also, do some jokes about how his kids are your husband's.

Most importantly, never go away with him again. Tell Jane why.

Thanks everybody

DH has been friends since they were at school so it's a difficult one to cut off if he wanted to. He has tried several times over the years to get Adam help for his anxiety and offered to go with him but he refuses saying they'll put him on medication and he won't take it. I think DH feels sorry for him as he had an abusive childhood and DH is also very laid back but sometimes he does say "you'd kill me if I said that to Jane" when he makes a sexual innuendo or comment. Not that my DH ever would.

DH stepped in when he was around to hear it and said she's absolutely fine (about our daughter) when he was trying to control the situation.

Jane has put up with this behaviour since they were 16 when they got together, he's always been controlling and jealous according to her. I had another chat about it tonight with her on the quiet.

There was a fall out about 7 years ago between another couple (friends) but it's a bit outing, let's just say Jane was drunk and crying in the pub toilet saying she wanted to leave him and she was so long in there with a female friend because she was upset and didn't want to come out looking like she'd been crying that he accused her of having an affair with the female friend and it all blew up.

I don't know why you'd think it's not real, I've met arseholes like that more than once.

OP, have you considered:

'For God's sake will you shut up?! I've spent my whole holiday so far listening to you being either disgusting and pervy or ordering everyone about like a sergeant major. Give it a fucking rest, I'm sick of you!'

Seriously though, I'd definitely be taking Jane aside and pointing out he is actually, definitely, abusive. No doubt about it, that it's not her fault, and you'll help her leave if she wants. He's probably much worse at home without an audience, poor woman. And her poor 12 yo. What does Jane think when she imagines that this must be what her daughter thinks is normal, and she'll probably end up with a carbon copy of her father when she grows up. Would Jane be happy with that?

I'd definitely respond with a cold and calm 'how dare you, don't speak to me like that' when he's being disgusting. I'd also challenge his criticism of your parenting and tell him it's not welcome and keep it to himself.

Eh? Mumsnet can verify I'm a long term poster just name changed...

Ah just tell him to fuck off. Sounds like an utter knob.

Oh stop being so ridiculous

🙄

How is his behaviour of sexual harassment, judgement on parenting and suspicions, even remotely being tolerated by all the men in this villa? 😳 This has got to be a joke?! And you're all parents?! The men need to step up here and protect their wives from this whatever he's calling himself.

I'd call him out, book another hotel with my family, and enjoy my week left! He wouldn't be a friend!

And tbh, my first thoughts on them as a couple when reading OP... one of them has cheated and they're clearly not managing it well!

Perhaps suggest to him (if he makes a suitably annoying remark) he might like to move, alone, to the Empty Quarter in Saudi Arabia?.
Why do you all let him get away with it?

Adam is definitely a cheater himself and protecting

I think the next time he says something I would say 'I really want to enjoy this holiday but you're starting to make it difficult'.
So that he has a warning before you really lose your shit with him.

He’s a hypocrite. Jane has to cover up and be careful not to be alone with a man but he makes sexual innuendos about his friends’ wives and about fathering their babies and when they bend over. I agree he is probably cheating on her as well.

Tell DH that he needs to tell Adam not to say one more fucking word about you or you will tell Adam to fuck off. Get angry at DH, OP!

You need to be clear that his behaviour towards Janes and his kids is abuse.

Also be clear that him being abused as a child is something horrific, but does not give him the right to be abusive to anybody else. Ever. The idea that abused people abuse people is extremely damaging. It's insulting to the rest of us who go out of our way not to hurt our loved ones. Just like we make that choice, he's made a choice not to get help. He's even had support to get it (your DH)!

I would also mention to Jane - alone - that you've noticed how he's treating her and that you're worried for her. Tell her if she ever wants to talk you're always there (if you are/would be). Let her know it's absolutely not normal behaviour and it's not ok because he's been abused. She's not going to jump up and leave him. She might not even understand fully because she's so used to it! It's important someone says it to her though.

Every time he says or does these things and is not pulled up, it's tacit agreement that it's acceptable. That's actually further damaging to Jane. She feels 100x worse than you as he's been doing this to her for years. She will doubt that she's right/allowed to be upset. She's normalised it. He has made sure of that. Indicating that it's not acceptable will offer her a different view. She's not going to jump up and leave him, but it's important she knows that what you've seen is actually not ok.

I'd send her links to definitions of controlling and abusive behaviours when you're back, but he's probably monitoring all her communications.

Some great advice.

Call him out. Honestly people say I'm too blunt but I can't ever tolerate this shit. If you want to sit around absorbing it then fine but he will keep doing it.