Another dog attack, man killed, can this just go on?

[IthinkIamAnAlien]

Just on the news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795

Week after week, there is something wrong with dogs (and the owners) today, I grew up with them and this never, ever happened. Maybe because dogs were treated as dogs and not trophy animals. Awful for everyone.

Any suggestions like muzzling all dogs are pointless as the owners you need to target simply won't do it.

I don't think they've specified yet.

But requiring neutering, plus an import ban, plus muzzles at all times outside a securely fenced home, would all be helpful.

My prediction for next nightmare breed is some sort of mastiff cross.....

I don't know the answer to this issue, and I don't think an outright ban would work, as it would push it underground and cause more attacks on children/people in the home.

I think many people don't realise that some breeds can be good family pets in the home and they can still turn and attack, the two traits are not exclusive.
Something sets these dogs off, a child squealing, someone running etc. People think that if a dog is friendly generally, they will always be so, but it doesn't work like that.

@placemats , that was interesting, thanks for the link.

So - licensing, chipping, insurance and enough leeway to include not only banned breeds but also any dog that is aggressive or physically powerful. This requirement for owners stood out to me:

they must be physically and psychologically capable of caring for the dog.

I live in a retirement area and regularly see people who can barely pick up after their dog- they wouldn't stand a chance if they had to restrain it. DC2 was knocked down as a toddler by a large dog that completely overpowered the lovely elderly lady walking it.

I work in a pet supplies shop and have noticed a huge increase in the number of people who come in with dogs who have absolutely no idea about them or the characteristics of the breed they’ve got.

For example, woman came in a few weeks ago with a working cocker pup and her four young kids. I jokingly said that’s a handful, what made you go for a working spaniel and she said in all seriousness that it wasn’t a working dog it was a pet.

Personally I think people should take a test and get a licence before they get a dog. Insurance should be compulsory as should training classes. Anyone caught with an out of control dog should have the dog destroyed and a lifetime ban on keeping them. Hefty fines for people who haven’t got a licence and insurance.

Part of any new law that states all dogs should be muzzled outside should also be if a dog is outside without a muzzle then the dog gets taken off you.

Bully XLs to be banned by the end of the year.

Thank goodness for that. They should all pts ASAP. There is no legitimate reason o own such an aggressive, muscular and unpredictable dog.

You'll get people saying that this kind of thing only happens on mumsnet, but I suspect these people either don't get out much or live in some lovely leafy suburb. Unfortunately, some of us are poor!!

I live in the country, but it's a very deprived area. Most places are dog friendly here; there are very, very few places where dogs aren't allowed here. When fewer people had dogs, it wasn't much of an issue.

But now every tosser and their mum around here has a bull breed or similar, it really is a problem. I am approached by unfamiliar dogs on a near daily basis when walking now, and I no can longer take my children to certain areas where I've gone for walks all my life because I just know we'll encounter one of these sodding dogs and I just don't want to take the risk with my children's lives.

I second this. Putting a muzzle on my Bulldog would be tricky with his flat face but would happily do whatever it takes to help manage this situation.

Anyone who thinks their dog will never bite shouldn’t be allowed to own a dog.

My dog has bitten me once, she was at the vet with an injured paw and I was trying to soothe her, the vet must have caused pain as he examined the paw and my thumb was the nearest thing to her mouth and she bit it.
The difference is it was one quick bite under severe stress and pain and it lasted 2 seconds.
However my thumb bled a lot and I now have arthritis in the knuckle.
My dog is medium sized and not powerful.
Imagine a sustained attack over 2 minutes from a large and powerful dog, I’m not surprised people die.

@disappearingfish my point is they are both unpredictable. Dog owners who trust their dogs implicitly are naïve and they put their dog at risk in doing so. Particularly in your example the old arthritic lab... that is exactly the type of dog who does bite because it is in pain.

I feel exactly the same out with my three year old, we’ve had multiple encounters with dogs lunging for him and growling in the last year, all off the lead, every time the owner is all “oh they’re just a bit excited” and makes absolutely no effort to put them back on the lead even. I’m so over it. I’m nervous seeing any dogs off the lead now.

Also agree with the dog-friendly settings, would be nice if there was somewhere you could go without this being a worry.

IMO there are also way too many people who see their dogs as their children and therefore anthropomorphise them ridiculously. Even the friendliest dogs can be dangerous, I know someone whose very gentle dog of eight/ten years just flipped at home and tore half her face off. Years of surgeries as a result.

A member of my family insists on taking their dog absolutely everywhere and it creates such additional stress for everyone, they have been asked not to and they literally do not care because in their mind the dog is of the same status as a child (they have repeatedly equated them). I hate it.

huh, what do you know? LBC reporting that this is exactly what they're now going to do:

XL bully breed to be banned in UK after spate of attacks - just hours after man savaged... - LBC

"LBC understands any existing XL bullies will have to be muzzled in public and on the lead at all times. They will also have to be neutered."

Why is it stupid? I have been bitten by Jack Russells 4 times, drawing blood once. I'm not afraid of them, I don't think they should be banned but why should I have to accept getting bitten by dogs while I'm walking and minding my own business, even if it's just a nip. My kids have been knocked over by plenty of smaller dogs who've run all the way over to them, far away from owners and then stood over them barking. I'd definitely feel better if these dogs were muzzled even if I'm not worried about permanent damage to my kids from them.

I absolutely would not like to see laws relaxed on guns at all. Just ban these dogs and lockup the losers who continue to own them.

There is an interesting article in the Telegraph on the high level of inbreeding of XL bully which has increased the issues. It appears that relatively large number of the dogs are from a bloodline that included a particularly aggressive dog. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/14/britains-xl-bullys-descend-one-inbred-pet-us-killer-kimbo/

Let's hope they get this sorted and it isn't one those policies that get shelved

All dogs muzzled and on leads in public. No need for interpretation, or investigation. Dog to be pts if found in public not muzzled.
I'm not particularly interested in your dogs discomfort, or how friendly or little they are. It's not worth the risk.

My view is that we shouldn't move straight to muzzling all dogs when out. I think the first step is to bring back licenses to own a dog and properly enforce it through focused police work and dog wardens. It seems with the number of deaths and serious injuries it would be appropriate to make it a policing priority.

This wouldn't be just to combat these attacks, but also to enforce proper care of dogs for their benefit as well. Having a license would involve home checks to see that dogs were being kept humanely and safely.

People will say that those who own breeds for irresponsible reasons won't get a license and will still own a dog if they lose their license, well the same could be said for muzzles. The difference is that if owning a dog without a license was a criminal act, charges could be brought before the dog had hurt someone, or was even in a position to do so.

Equally, muzzles don't help in the case of dogs escaping from their house.

This would obviously carry a cost to the taxpayer to enforce, which could be offset partially by owners having to pay a fee to have a license, and fines for owner's non-compliance.

This won't happen.

'It isn't the dog, its the owner' is no different from 'Its not the gun, its the person holding it.'

So when a dog lunges at some poor person they are meant to be rummaging around for their "dog knife" and recalling what they learnt at their "how to fight a mad dog to the death" class?

Chridt almighty.... you think we'd be safer if the general population was allowed to routinely carry guns and knives?

I am all for dealing with dangerous dogs, but this is insane.

Possibly not. But it bloody well should. The general public clearly can't be trusted to be responsible pet owners.

they must be physically and psychologically capable of caring for the dog.

Yes, that should be a requirement and I agree @DewinDwl

My sister is unable to control one of her dogs and she is incredibly defensive when it's pointed out to her - she's 66 and thinks she's still as active and young as when she was in her 30s.