Another dog attack, man killed, can this just go on?

[IthinkIamAnAlien]

Just on the news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795

Week after week, there is something wrong with dogs (and the owners) today, I grew up with them and this never, ever happened. Maybe because dogs were treated as dogs and not trophy animals. Awful for everyone.

@BubziOwl you sound like you live somewhere similar to me (West Yorkshire, in a very deprived area) there are absolutely loads of dogs here and you can walk to a green space (moors and fields) within 5 minutes of your door. It's a real mix of rural sheep dog types and massive status dogs. My local canal and moor is popular for walking dogs and I guarantee you'll meet at least a couple of off lead dogs that are 'friendly'. Another bugbear of mine...owners who let their dogs run at you full pelt and exclaim 'Don't worry love, he's friendly and won't harm a fly'. But how the hell do I know that? I've never met your dog and I'm scared of dogs anyway so worry that they will sense that!

You really think banning another breed will be the magic answer? Those that don't care will just breed some thing else until that gets banned too. Backstreet breeding needs to be stopped. The thought of some one with a phobia of dogs running around with a knife or gun no thanks!

I agree with you. There isn't the capacity to risk assess every dog.

Any dog can bite so it reduces that risk overall.

Breaking news says PM will ban by end of year once they define what an XL Bully is.

The problem is that there are lots and lots of dogs which are owned by people who have no clue how to control them, and don't even know what 'under control' means.

I've had dogs running at me while their owner attempts to reason with them. Insanity. A dog should be trained to respect commands immediately, and if it isn't then it shouldn't be let off the lead. Letting your dog run loose when it isn't well trained enough to come back on command seems to be common these days - I see an example every single time I walk or run in our popular local dog-walking spot.

Owners are getting so much WORSE and have zero clue about how to look after a dog, or what is required when getting one.

To give you an example, my mum has boarded dogs for about 10+ years. She recently had a dog come to stay with her. He was a bloody nightmare - weeing and pooing all over the place, unsettled, being fed raw meat by his owners, barking loudly during the nights, broken furniture etc. My mum told the owners and they were having none of it. They refused to pay for any damage, or believe their dog could do such a thing. They were the worst owners by mum had to encounter in over 10 years of looking after dogs.

XL Bully's need to banned - YES - but now is a good time for this god damn government to get a grip and start imposing some real harsh laws. Stopping the selling/breeding/buying of dogs without any sort of license/registration for a start. Owners must have insurance, and go through mandatory training when getting a pet. They shouldn't be allowed to keep larger dogs in small spaces either. If their dog harms another human, that owner needs to be fully traceable and proper measures need to be taken. 70% of people don't do any research when buying a dog - so is it any wonder dogs are out of control and the owners act the way they do?!

Banning these dogs isn't going to solve the wider issue - owners need to vetted and understand what's involved.

Completely with you on this.

I've liked dogs all my life. But, noticeably since lockdown, they are becoming a menace. I don't want to be falling over people's dogs whenever I set foot in a shop - as if the issues with mixed sex changing were not enough. Both these issues are putting me off shopping on the high street at all.

As for these huge, muscular bull breeds, they are a liability and yes, I do include the Staffie in that. I know they tend to be soft, friendy dogs and most will probably never go for anyone during the whole course of their lives. BUT, reverting to breed traits only takes once. And if they do turn, the damage they can inflict is considerable.

According to Sunak, work will be done on identifying the problem dogs constantly in the media for attacking animals and humans. It IS the dogs as well as the owners, and a ban will now be in force by the end of the year. And not a moment too soon.

There were 1,695 deaths in the uk in 2022 (<15 by dogs) due to road traffic accidents. Therefore cars should only be used for essential journeys and only for journeys greater than 5 miles, anyone driving just for leisure pursuits or when they could reasonably cycle, walk, or get a bus, can have their car crushed. I don't care about people's discomfort, freedoms, or how safe you feel as a driver, it's not worth the risk.

I'm a very responsible dog owner. I never let them off the lead. The only time I've heard of the breed of one of mine being involved in an attack is when one of them was on a lead and two dangerous dogs who were off their lead attacked and killed it whilst their owners were walking it.

I still think about that poor animal so I'm very much against these dangerous dogs.

There was one chained up in a camping field last week but could still get to people walking by and I made a point of not going anywhere near it.

the government needs to remove dogs from private ownership

We all know what dogs are killing , and the gov has just announced to ban them, about bloody time.

All terriers crosses should be looked at. How many golden retrievers or poodles are mauling people to death, behave !

'Don't worry love, he's friendly and won't harm a fly' seems to be code for "He won't do what I tell him, so tough luck you just have to deal with him harassing you" in my area (which sounds like it might be quite close to where you are).

If you cannot reliably call back your dog the minute it starts hassling someone, it should never be off lead. Nobody should have to deal with dogs running at them, regardless of how 'friendly' they may be.

@LATBOTG every single dog is unpredictable. Every single cat, horse, gerbil, ferret, budgie and goldfish is unpredictable.That's not the same as saying that every single pet carries the same risk and therefore should be subject to the same risk mitigation.

The situation with dog attacks is horrific but that doesn't mean we should abandon critical thinking when tackling the issue.

Agreed: I would add to this extendable leads should be banned

I would love to have space to walk my dog off lead other than parks full of half eaten picnics, pizzas and KFC that fools have left in behind because they can’t be arsed to put their litter in the bin and don’t get me started on the human shit in bushes….

My dog wears a scavenger muzzle in the summer to stop him eating things that will make him ill. Unfortunately there are no fenced dog parks near me (London), which I think would be a game changer.

Trouble is for every responsible owner there (it feels like) at least 10 that don’t have control, have maybe done 6 weeks of puppy class if you are lucky and think their dog can do no wrong and that’s before you have to deal with the XL bullies.

I would add Chowchows to the list of dogs to be very wary of too as they seem to be popular as they look cute and fluffy but they are stubborn, strong and all seem to want to kill the smaller dogs (had to deal with one this morning that dragged its owner off her feet, on an extendable lead, natch, trying to get to my dog across the street minding his own business on short lead)

These ridiculous dog breeds are man-made and in-bred and a manifestation of the worst of humanity. Just shoot the bloody lot of them.

The person who runs the puppy training classes we went to has a preparatory homework before the first session for each participant to make a presentation (2 mins or so) on the breed characteristics of their new arrival. She said it was quite an eye-opener how many hadn't got a clue, and had chosen a dog without knowing the first thing about it's energy levels, ancestral working habits, tendencies to separation anxiety or resource guarding, even basics like how much exercise.....

That was before the huge rise in dog ownership in the first year or two of covid.

This is what needs to change. People really need to do that before getting the dog. OK, it might not make many inroads in to the problem of "hard" dogs, but it would nudge people into thinking more about responsible dog ownership and perhaps change attitudes. Because I agree that the poorly trained dogs who come bounding over "just being friendly" are a menace, and I'd love to get it through to the owners that they need to do more (proper training and a lead - it's not rocket science FFS!)

And if you think there are too many dogs inside businesses, then lobby the business owners. Again, the root cause is that people do not train their dogs to behave in those settings. Mine isn't great at this, so on the odd occasion I do take her in somewhere, she's on a short lead or I carry her. Unfortunately, neither of those actions prevents DC coming over and trying to interact with her without even asking.

@ComtesseDeSpair is correct. It may seem unpalatable, but the vast majority of these attacks happen in deprived areas. This article explains it:

https://www.nicswell.co.uk/health-news/dog-bite-hospitalisations-highest-in-deprived-areas

I'm delighted that XL Bullies are to be banned, but I think dog ownership in general needs to be far more tightly regulated. I don't think that every dog should be muzzled or on the lead for their walks because that will create more problems, but I don't think that dogs belong in shops and restaurants.

Perhaps mandatory third party insurance for dog owners should be introduced? There could be higher premiums for certain breeds, larger dogs and un-neutered dogs. Dog owners would be required to carry their insurance details with them when out with the dog, and be prepared to show them on request. No insurance? The dog is seized and there is an expensive fee to be paid to get the dog back.

I say all this as a dog lover with my own very lovely, gentle pooch, but I fear for her safety now that a very reactive Classic Bully has moved in a few doors away.

Someone who lives near me has 2 rotties; she cannot control them when walking them and is basically dragged down the street. In addition they spend a lot of time in her back yard; we have alleyways down the back of the houses. I have stopped walking past her house and detour the other way because the bloody dogs bark and launch themselves at the gate when I walk past .The gate actually moves when they do it, I love dogs ,but I am petrified that they will get through the gate and attack me. I don't think for one minute that she believes her dogs to be dangerous; but the snarling and snapping and general behaviour of those dogs frightens me.

We need to understand that all dogs might bite, but some will cause real harm or death.

Bully XLs to be banned by the end of the year.
Oh goody. Three reported attacks this week, several people injured and one killed. How many more people are going to die between now and the ban proper?

Also like pp said - owners who think their dog would never bite or attack are part of the problem. It's reassuring to see so many sensible owners on this thread agreeing that universal muzzling would be helpful.

Our local media has been all over this and ran an interview with a woman who has a 9 month old XL Bully puppy. The gist of the article was that as someone who had never owned a dog before she especially chose this breed after doing her research! So not a labrador,not a collie, not a spaniel or any of the breeds that are known for their intelligence and friendly natures but an XL Bully! Of course any dog has the potential to attack if not properly trained and cared for, but I struggle to understand the mindset of someone with no experience of training and living with a dog who chooses what is now a notorious breed as a first pet. The conclusion I drew was that it was the breed's reputation that attracted her.

Will they put all the XL Bully dogs down?

I agree with this. What's more an on the spot fine for anyone not obeying the law. Make the fine high enough, so it covers the cost of extra dog wardens. Unable to pay the fine? Your dog is instantly removed and pts. (Not talking about service dogs here obviously, as they are highly trained, although we do need a proper register for them).
No excuses, no whataboutery. It's time the UK started getting tough, I'm sick and tired of some members of society making life miserable for the majority of law abiding citizens.

I work with dogs and have done for a long time. I am not generally intimidated by dogs, even badly behaved ones (of which there seem to be far too many now - thanks lockdown!) but I am unnerved by XL Bully's.

A large reason behind that is the people who buy them. I am not saying 'it's not the breed, it's the owner' but I do think that someone, out of every type of dog / mixed breed decides that something of that size, strength and potential intimidation is a good choice. While any dog can bite, and do a degree of damage, these dogs are a serious issue as the damage they cause is extreme due to their size.

However, will banning them just create another 'problem dog'? I have a horrible feeling it will. Would it make more sense to make the owners wholly liable, or even imprisoned, if their dog attacks? If there is a massive fine and or much much tougher penalties, would that make more of a difference than just an outright ban?

I fully support neutering the current XL's there are now, but I am not sure that can be implemented enough, and I am also not convinced that a lot of the people with these dogs would like particularly fussed about the muzzle / licence and training properly angle either.

These threads are full of lunatics. Should we castrate men as so many are rapists? Or muzzle children who bully others?

There has been a large increase in attacks statistically, not just in reporting. And it's not accounted for in an increase in dogs, attacks have increased at a far greater rate than the number of dogs.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64798162.amp

The number of dog attacks recorded by police in England and Wales has risen by more than a third in the past five years, a BBC investigation has found.

Last year, there were nearly 22,000 cases of out-of-control dogs causing injury. In 2018, there were just over 16,000.

The UK's dog population is estimated to have risen by only 15% in that time.

The BBC's findings are based on 37 responses to Freedom of Information (FOI) requests made to all 43 police forces.

This is the same police that fail to arrest rapists, ignore burglaries and generally just are incompetent? Yes, they will definitely jump on a call about a rogue dog.

Unless the dog is misgendering someone the police won't do anything.