Page 24 | Another dog attack, man killed, can this just go on?

Shortstufflady · 16/09/2023 22:25

The problem with saying that no dogs should be in areas where there are children is the fact that children are everywhere including playing in the dog park instead of the play park, playing in the pub etc. Dogs are still sentient beings and the vast majority are very well trained and well behaved. You can’t punish all for a few. I would never dream of taking my dog into a Brewster, Macdonalds, soft play eatery etc., yet there should be some dog friendly places. I absolutely agree that dogs should not be in places where food is sold like a supermarket or even a shopping mall. I also cringe at dogs in crowded places like a busy shopping high street in case the poor mites get stood on or just find it overwhelming as well as considering people with allergies and those that are scared of dogs. It’s about always considering others and what’s best for your pet and what’s best for the public. And no, I wouldn’t muzzle my tiny 2kg dog as she is terrified of anything near her face.

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 16/09/2023 22:42

This is what the British Veterinary Association had to say.

Another dog attack, man killed, can this just go on?

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:13

IthinkIamAnAlien · 15/09/2023 11:09

Just on the news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795

Week after week, there is something wrong with dogs (and the owners) today, I grew up with them and this never, ever happened. Maybe because dogs were treated as dogs and not trophy animals. Awful for everyone.

If you happen to be of the more wordly wise vintage, like me, dog licencing will have been a thing as you were growing up. Needs to be brought back, breeding needs to be regulated (and regulation enforced), training of particular breeds (if not all breeds) should be mandatory, and that would require regulation of dog trainers.

My son lives in Spain, where it's the owners of potentially dangerous dogs who need to be licenced. To get a licence they need to undergo annual health checks to ensure they are strong enough to handle the dog and have good eye sight, and they have to undergo checks to ensure they have no criminal records and that they have never been the subject of complaints by neighbours. This applies not just to the owners but to anybody who walks the dog. They have far fewer fatal dog attacks than we have in the UK, and no breeds are banned.

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:16

Dotjones · 15/09/2023 11:13

Either the government needs to remove dogs from private ownership or train the public in how to fight them off. Dogs are now a weapon rather than a pet so we need to be able to defend against them accordingly. I'd like to see the laws relaxed so we can carry guns to use on dogs (only farmers really have the right and ability to shoot dogs at the moment) or at least carry knives. It wouldn't stop all dog attacks but carrying a "dog knife" and being trained in how to kill a dog would stop some attacks definitely.

Nuts. Absolute bloody nuts. Train people to fight off dogs? What are you on??

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:19

HectorSalamanca · 15/09/2023 11:27

I'd like to see the laws relaxed so we can carry guns to use on dogs (only farmers really have the right and ability to shoot dogs at the moment) or at least carry knives

JFC. Words fail me.

Nutty as a fruitcake.

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:21

Goodornot · 15/09/2023 11:28

I'd like the current dog friendly setting to be reversed too.

I'm fed up of not being able to go anywhere without being bothered by dogs.

Department stores, shops, pubs, cafes, restaurants- dogs are a bloody nightmare.

My partner and I spent over £100 at Gaucho one weekend sitting outside only for it to be spoilt by dogs barking and begging for food at tables.

They're unhygienic and it should go back to them not being allowed anywhere. You want a dog then take it for a walk- don't use a shopping trip to exercise it instead.

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I feel the same way about toddlers ...

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:26

ComtesseDeSpair · 15/09/2023 11:27

I suspect we could solve an enormous part of the problem if councils and housing associations prohibited dogs over a certain size and weight being kept in their properties and strictly enforced it, as is common policy in public housing (and indeed, apartment blocks generally) in many other countries. Yes yes, we’re not supposed to say it, but I’m willing to bet at least 95% of the owners of these dogs are workshy layabouts in social housing.

Setting side the bigotry, that's coming at it from completely the wrong angle. It's the breeders who need to be tackled so that big powerful breeds will only be bred by responsible, regulated breeders (not inbred as they are at present) and only sold to properly-vetted responsible owners - wherever they happen to live.

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:29

301963Laurie · 15/09/2023 11:33

Unfortunately the type of owner who generally own this type of dog are not going to follow any rules !
Absolutely shocking. Police should be allowed to stop and question any dog owner who has one of these ‘big’ dogs and ask them basic questions about safety etc !

It starts before that. These lovely dogs should be prevented from getting into the hands of drug runners and other nefarious types in the first place and that starts with breeders and the proper regulation of breeders.

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:40

DewinDwl · 15/09/2023 11:35

I can't believe that these animals that can and regularly do hurt and kill people are allowed to roam everywhere freely. It's nuts.

The latest attack happened outside a primary school at 3:15!

Muzzling as a minimum; and manslaughter prison sentences for irresponsible owners. Am afraid I partially agree with the poster upthread and in some cases the dog should be considered a weapon as they are bred, trained and used as such.

Edited

... and that's why the solution starts with laws regulating breeders, licencing and mandatory (regulated) training to prevent them getting into the hands of people who would use them as weapons in the first place. Start at the beginning - head the problem of at the pass rather than waiting for the dogs to get into the wrong hands and then taking the problem.

I agree with your comment on manslaughter, which should apply to anybody who does not comply with this legislation and whose dog is involved in a fatal attack (and a prison sentence if the attack is not fatal, and hefty fine whether the dog is involved in an attack or not if legislation is not adhered to).

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:42

Ellie1015 · 15/09/2023 11:36

Awful. Poor man amd his family/friends.

The owner should be treated like a drunk driver or someone who stabbed another person. Owning a dog that is so out of control and dancerous should carry much higher punishment for the owner.

Edited

He's being done for manslaughter because he's already had a police caution about the behaviour of the particular dogs in question.

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:45

neilyoungismyhero · 15/09/2023 11:42

In Spain dogs over a certain weight have to be muzzled in public.

And the owners and walkers have to be licenced and undergo annual medical checks to ensure they're strong enough to handle the dogs. They will not be granted a licence is they have a criminal record or have ever had a formal complaint made about them by a neighbour.

Jayne35 · 16/09/2023 23:46

Either the government needs to remove dogs from private ownership or train the public in how to fight them off. Dogs are now a weapon rather than a pet so we need to be able to defend against them accordingly. I'd like to see the laws relaxed so we can carry guns to use on dogs (only farmers really have the right and ability to shoot dogs at the moment) or at least carry knives. It wouldn't stop all dog attacks but carrying a "dog knife" and being trained in how to kill a dog would stop some attacks definitely.

Oh my god yes, let's absolutely encourage more knife carrying. Ffs!!!

Pupinski · 16/09/2023 23:48

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 15/09/2023 20:54

That would also include border collies, Jack Russells and dachshunds, amongst others.

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Yes. I don't think they've thought it through...

JockTamsonsBairns · 16/09/2023 23:53

Oliotya · 15/09/2023 12:04

All dogs muzzled and on leads in public. No need for interpretation, or investigation. Dog to be pts if found in public not muzzled.
I'm not particularly interested in your dogs discomfort, or how friendly or little they are. It's not worth the risk.

This is ridiculous as a blanket policy.

I have a 10yo working cocker spaniel, and we live in the Yorkshire Dales.

When she's out working, she can't be muzzled or on a lead.

When we're out for a hike, there's literally nobody for many miles around.
I choose to live in very remote countryside, and a cocker spaniel suits my lifestyle. I was out with her on Thursday morning up into the Dales for 5 hours and we didn't encounter another living soul.
I won't be muzzling her or keeping her on a lead in her natural environment. She's never really been in an urban area but, if she was, I'd put a slip lead on her.

Jayne35 · 16/09/2023 23:55

*I’d support a massive reform of dog breeding, so that only licensed breeders can have unneutered dogs.

That would help protect both dogs and the public.*

And that would work how exactly? Drugs and guns are illegal but plenty of people have those. Making something illegal will not stop it and its quite naive to think it would make any difference. Sad but true unfortunately.

Zedekthebrave · 17/09/2023 00:12

I totally agree with you and while we’re at if Nan those infernal extending leads at least from being used on the street

T1Dmama · 17/09/2023 01:32

Goodornot · 15/09/2023 11:28

I'd like the current dog friendly setting to be reversed too.

I'm fed up of not being able to go anywhere without being bothered by dogs.

Department stores, shops, pubs, cafes, restaurants- dogs are a bloody nightmare.

My partner and I spent over £100 at Gaucho one weekend sitting outside only for it to be spoilt by dogs barking and begging for food at tables.

They're unhygienic and it should go back to them not being allowed anywhere. You want a dog then take it for a walk- don't use a shopping trip to exercise it instead.

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I agree.
I have 2 dogs myself, enjoy long forest walks with them.
Never understood people taking dogs shopping, to cafes, on school runs etc!
We attended a carnival today, a few idiots took dogs with them and they spent the whole time terrified of the loud music/drums, motorbikes backfiring and steam engines tooting…. It’s cruel!

Oliotya · 17/09/2023 07:22

PaulaZackMayo · 16/09/2023 21:19

@Oliotya so tough shit on your view. No ifs & buts.

Which views would those be? Objecting to the dog shit that cakes every park and pavement? Objecting to the people being mauled to death? Objecting to the thousands of dogs languishing in shelters?
What do you have against sensible regulations?
Or are you not really a "dog lover" and just you and your dog and the most important things ever?

Missingmyusername · 17/09/2023 08:06

News has been updated today regarding XL’s they’ll have to be neutered/spayed, kept on a lead and muzzled when out in public and insured. There won’t be a mass cull.

Missingmyusername · 17/09/2023 08:08

@Goodornot Can’t see that happening. Dog owners generate too much revenue for businesses.
Were dogs actually coming up to your table, presumably off lead to beg for food? 😕

Ukrainebaby23 · 17/09/2023 08:10

Needanewnamebeingwatched · 15/09/2023 11:22

I think it's time all dogs should be muzzled when out in public.

And i say that as a dog owner/lover of many years

As a former long time dog owner, (30 years, 6 dogs) I agree.
If muzzles were standard, no one would bat an eyelid, because they aren't, if u put one on, everyone considers you're a bad or mad dog owner.

Missingmyusername · 17/09/2023 08:10

@Oliotya You sound delightful! 🙄

Ukrainebaby23 · 17/09/2023 08:11

Dotjones · 15/09/2023 11:13

Either the government needs to remove dogs from private ownership or train the public in how to fight them off. Dogs are now a weapon rather than a pet so we need to be able to defend against them accordingly. I'd like to see the laws relaxed so we can carry guns to use on dogs (only farmers really have the right and ability to shoot dogs at the moment) or at least carry knives. It wouldn't stop all dog attacks but carrying a "dog knife" and being trained in how to kill a dog would stop some attacks definitely.

Bonkers, we want less weapons not more.

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 17/09/2023 08:12

Missingmyusername · 17/09/2023 08:06

News has been updated today regarding XL’s they’ll have to be neutered/spayed, kept on a lead and muzzled when out in public and insured. There won’t be a mass cull.

There are over 3000 exempted pitbulls that live with these restrictions already, so it was pretty much a given that this was going to be the plan.

Oliotya · 17/09/2023 08:16

Missingmyusername · 17/09/2023 08:10

@Oliotya You sound delightful! 🙄

Oh yeah, and the poster I was responding to was being lovely and polite of course