To record someone in my home without their consent?

[RunningInChaoticCircles]

This is DS’s social worker who came to my home for a meeting. I had an idea that the meeting was be used for nefarious purposes and I was right.

Got it all on video and put in a complaint as have evidence of what was said and was able to go it for exact words. Told them I recorded it.

Council have said I must delete the recording immediately as social worker did not consent.

I checked and from what I read it is not illegal to record someone in YOUR home without their consent (I certainly wouldn’t do it to anyone else apart from council employees!) and keep it for your own use.

Who’s right and WIBU?

I completely get you, thought at a completely different stage of education and stage. My son he is 6 has ASD moderate learning disability and language delay. Getting him into an alternative pathway school (special needs school for old school people) was a 2 year fight which ended in a year delay for starting primary school. Had a disability social worker for 2 years, despite crisis times (he was escaping out the window and landlord would not give me keys for any windows and would not allow me to alter the locks or add additional locks to prevent him getting out no sleep for a year nearly was terrified he’d get out as I slept) disability social work discharged him… never even met her face to face. The struggle is very real to anyone reading this. The council and social has the legal obligation to get the right setting for extended education for people with learning disabilities and other types of disabilities. They are failing. I would go to local MSP and complain, yous oils be surprised on what they can do as I have found out with my experiences.

Legally speaking, no

millions of workers are constantly recorded all day every day at work. This is always the funniest argument.

Nope, it’s fine. We did this when a referral to Social Services to get us through the door for genuine support became a nefarious witch hunt for nothing. The minute we started recording them, we were taken “off the books” faster than Usain Bolt on cocaine. There is nothing they can do, it isn’t illegal and you are protecting yourself. Because when SWs are involved, you have to protect yourself because they are, generally, overworked, inept and liars.

The council sound like they're panicking. Technically I think you're in the clear. In fact I think that even if you'd told them you were recording the conversation and they'd objected, that wouldn't have meant you had to stop recording - telling them is enough. That's why companies put the "these calls are recorded" warning on their phone lines - you don't have to explicitly consent, you're consenting by continuing the call. It might not have caught them out though, and they would obviously be free to end the meeting.

I was inclined to disbelieve you until I read the thread. I work in mental health and have witnessed an identical situation - unfortunately it seems like common practice and is all about saving money. On one hand, there is less money to spend. On the other, these are peoples lives which deserve the best support. Fingers crossed for you. There are advocates you can hire I think, have seen some success when they get involved.

FWIW I'm a social worker and have always refused people to record me. Not because I have anything to hide - because I have no control over how the information is stored, edited, or published.
No idea why so many people can't understand the difference between CCTV (which very rarely includes audio fwiw)

I have always taken the time to go through with someone what their reason for the request is and how else I can support (eg for them to have someone support them at the meeting, to agree a record of the meeting at the end that's signed etc)

I've never known a recording of a social worker to be accepted by a court as evidence. I have known of plenty where recordings have been uploaded to social media, meaning sharing private information/breaching confidentiality, and used to harass - one of my colleagues had to change jobs after someone posted a video of him and details and branded him a peadophile. Unfounded and malicious, but once that goes viral on local sites it's not something that can be undone.

Personally I think cctv on the streets, personal cameras at home and dash cams in cars are all good. If you don't do anything wrong it won't matter. If you do something wrong you will hopefully be caught. And if someone wrongs you you will be glad of it.

I would be perfectly content to be recorded with or without my knowledge, during the course of my job. I often am. Some patients ask and others you can tell have a ‘secret’ device. I’ve even offered in the past for them to pop it on the desk as the recording will be clearer. There is a risk of editing/clipping etc but I get around that be keeping a note of consultation start and end time; and, I ask for a copy of the recording for my notes also. I take good contemporaneous notes. The recording isn’t about me, it’s about them, it’s their information, not mine. I have no issue with them recording it in whatever way they choose.

This says it all. It’s apparently not illegal. I wouldn’t delete it and I would show the people who said she didn’t consent this link.

You could have it transcribed. Courts can accept that sort of evidence but you might need to pay for professional service for transcription

They might refuse. I know these people and know there is no low to which they wouldn't stoop.

The only way I have ever been successful with them is to lawyer up and have legal representation at every meeting. This is, of course, hideously expensive, but at least puts the fear of god in them and makes them behave legally and not tell outright lies.

I assume you're on the radar of the national autistic society etc? They provide legal representation and support.

Keep fighting mama x

They might refuse. I know these people and know there is no low to which they wouldn't stoop.
What every health and social work professional? They all are untrustworthy?
So you'd be OK with them saying
'Oh involved with social services? I know these parents, there's no low to which they wouldn't stoop, they're all neglectful and abusive because I've come across one family like that'?

Which I absolutely know is not the case.
Can people stop with the stress and negativity in the tales towards @RunningInChaoticCircles who's obviously stressed enough!

I didn't say all social services. I say the ones that the OP is referring to, who are the ones who lie.

Before I had a kid with special needs I was very much a 'these people are here to help us' type. I'm a hand wringing leftie liberal by persuasion. Never been in trouble with the law. My family includes social workers who are wonderful.

But honestly my experience in the system is that certain departments and divisions, dependent on their leadership, are at best incompetent and at worst lying scumbags.

That social worker got caught manipulating a vulnerable person, lying etc. Go back to the LA and tell them if action isn’t taken you will take legal / media action.

On the flip side of that, I'm a kinship carer and we had one social worker who was absolutely horrible to us while singing the praises of the abusive parents and I wish I'd recorded him.
Sadly, there are always going to be people who spoil it for those who are good at it

I was put through a complete circus with 22-year-old social workers, trying to tell me how to navigate a domestic violence marriage with my child. I was not the one who was violent or pursued by police and they made my life a living hell for six years.

The number of inaccuracies in these social worker reports was disgusting and I had no defence to it because I wasn’t even allowed to see them until they had made their decisions. You guys are not playing fair or unbiased! Everyone is afraid of having the next baby P case and so SW’s always seek to cover their ass before the child or protective parent! What are we supposed to do to protect ourselves and our children?

in my opinion, the entire system needs reform so that the children who need it are actually protected!

Gp practice manager here. We had a patient covertly record a go consultation. We contacted the Defence union who said perfectly ok to record sound. Best to say that it's being recorded as the go can tailor their consult to accommodate this.
Copy must not be published or shared, if so, it's a data protection breach.
Tell the Bottom Inspectors to take a hike.

Legally, you can record whatever you want.

BUT... if you wish to use something as evidence, you need to inform the person they are being recorded, including in your own home.

If you record things without permission, then it's good to then make your own manuscript of the conversation and use that to show the contradictory evidence rather than admitting to a recording.

Not illegal to record anywhere as long as it is not released and is kept for personal use. I often do this at work for long meetings so that I refresh my notes on what actually was said as things can be twisted and it's good to be able to look back ands see that you are not going mad.

My instinct is the opposite to be honest i.e. none of them are necessary or good, though I can see some advantages.

Whatever I think though they exist and with that in mind @Verytall I wouldn't give two hoots about your consent or otherwise. Though legal protections against onward transmission should be in place (the example you gave should certainly make people think twice).

I wouldn't delete it, but I would transcribe it word for word, title it Notes of Meeting with .... Re....( date). Then I'd use the Notes in any complaint.

@RamsesTheChub that's fine that you wouldn't give two hoots. But that doesn't mean that I have to stay and provide a service - soon as I'm aware you're recording, I leave. It wouldn't get you very far if you were trying to get a service. A bit of mutual respect and manners goes a long way.

In my experience I've known multiple parents use recordings in a way that has been damaging to their children or to other vulnerable family members- posting (very personal) things on Facebook live, making scenes in court with (inadmissible) evidence, playing (edited) audio recordings down the phone to their kids to mess with their heads. In twenty years of social work (in various depts, not just child protection) I've never known someone to record and then use it in a way that is actually an advantage to them, or has helped them get a resource. Hence why I'm not willing to mess around anymore.