To record someone in my home without their consent?

[RunningInChaoticCircles]

This is DS’s social worker who came to my home for a meeting. I had an idea that the meeting was be used for nefarious purposes and I was right.

Got it all on video and put in a complaint as have evidence of what was said and was able to go it for exact words. Told them I recorded it.

Council have said I must delete the recording immediately as social worker did not consent.

I checked and from what I read it is not illegal to record someone in YOUR home without their consent (I certainly wouldn’t do it to anyone else apart from council employees!) and keep it for your own use.

Who’s right and WIBU?

many are in workplaces covered in cameras. Computers are often monitored. Being recorded is quite common.

You should have told them you were recording them:

The Data Protection Act 2018 gives individuals the right to seek compensation for any losses they suffer as a result of a breach of their data protection rights. This includes any losses caused by someone recording you without your permission.

https://lioncctv.co.uk/can-i-sue-someone-for-recording-me-without-my-permission-edinburgh-uk/

I’m with you OP - and so sorry to read of your difficulties x

I was involved with SS about 30 years ago and so much agony could have been avoided by recordings of one on one meetings where a report would be submitted to court that was strong on SW opinion and light on accurate reporting.

I would love to have had a recording of the SW telling me categorically that my DS was going to be adopted months before the final hearing (he wasn’t, he came home.) or when she told me that I should get a little part time job and a cat to fill the void as children were off the table for me now. And that I was wasting tax payers money by fighting for my child. And how gleeful she was when the local paper published (anonymously) a broad outline of my case, because the Judge would see how unco-operative I was. (Metaphyseal fracture controversy).

So yes, I think body cams for SWs are an excellent idea, for both sides, because if what I have described above is “building a relationship” then further training is needed.

This article is full of inaccuracies. I wouldn’t cite that for any purpose.

I am regularly recorded in my job, I work in a public service, as you do. I have zero issue with anyone recording me. It’s a daily occurrence. I’m not hiding anything or doing anything wrong. What have you got to hide?

No wonder we are leaving the profession in our droves.
Would others be happy to be recorded in their daily job without their consent? (And abused, threatened, attacked etc)

Many years ago, when I was in receipt of social welfare payments in Dublin, I had to see a social worker for rent allowance.

In one place I lived the social worker's office was very heavily guarded, then I moved to a much rougher area but the social worker there had no such gatekeeping. The social worker in the first place was horrible, whereas the one in the second place was just lovely. They both had to obey the same rules, but the difference between their attitudes was like night and day.

i actually have another meeting coming up with DS’s psychology team as they are very concerned (quite rightly) that his mental health has taken another dive due to no permanent education support being in place still after two years and his temporary placement being withdrawn in July (which he only had for 4 months) despite the council knowing he had nowhere to go this September and hence them trying to force the unsuitable college. I really think they were expecting we’d give in.

His social worker and the SEN education team will be there (well have been invited).

I’m want to ask for it be recorded as it’s not in our home, in a public office.

Would they have grounds to refuse do you think?

I thought as long as it was not in a private area like a bedroom or bathroom it is legal to make the recording but it is not legal to distribute the recording so if you sent it to your friends and family or published it on Facebook it would be illegal .

Can you provide a reference for this please?

@Zebedee55 that article is absolute rubbish .

GDPR is not applicable. Article 2 sets it material scope very clearly. If in doubt the ICO had provided reams of info on how and when you can use CCTV as has the EDPB if in any doubt.

Yes, I'm more than happy to. In fact, I think it's a great idea and covers your own back. How do you think supermarket staff manage?

That's very nice.

Now quantify (with evidence) your losses.

*I’m want to ask for it be recorded as it’s not in our home, in a public office.

Would they have grounds to refuse do you think?*

I would ask ahead of time, the danger of asking in the moment is that one of the participants has a knee jerk reaction and says no and the meeting gets postponed. If you give them time to consider it they’re more likely to agree.

Employees in banks, schools and hospitals are often recorded on CCTV. If they have not lied about what was said at the meeting they have nothing to worry about. Courts can use things like CCTV in courts. I know a person who had a home help for her Mother and money went missing from her elderly and disabled Mum's purse. Her DD set up a hidden camera in the lounge and caught the care worker taking money from her Mum's purse. The agency watched the recording and the care worker was sacked. If people are doing or saying nothing wrong they have nothing to fear. Obviously no cameras in toilets or bathrooms.

Generally, English law concerns itself with what you are not allowed to do. Not what you are. So asking for a cite permitting something is a little like asking to prove a negative. If you like semantics.

I'm a FC and have looked after 1 DC since he was 5. He is now 17. I have got on with all SW except one who was a temporary maternity cover one. She was dreadful. She asked why FS room was not child orientated. The room had a Thomas the Tank Engine duvet cover, pillowcase, curtains, lamp and rug. These had been selected by 5 year old FS. We told her we thought it was child orientated because he chose it himself. The room had cream walls. She kept insisting we painted the walls in a bright colour. She suggested bright orange. We pointed out at the time the placement was short term and the placement might end in a month. Also all our house was painted in Timeless and I chose to personalise with accessories. She was indiscrete and told us she had concerns that his brother who was cared for by a different FC, who we knew very well but she did not know this, might not be having his DLA spent on him and she suspected FC were keeping his DLA for themselves. We knew the other Foster Parents well and knew they were using the money to fund Stage Coach which at the time was about £30 per week plus all the kit needed to attend plus another hobby. We told the parents what she had said to us. We thought if she was indiscrete about them she would be talking about us to other FC too. They made a formal complaint and she was replaced.

Maybe I should as I welcome guests of professional nature into my home if I ever have any start with a line like

“Audio and Video recordings take place on this premises in all non private areas, anything you do and may say could be used in a court of law” 😂. Wonder if that would hold up.

I should have been clearer, I was referring to
" if you sent it to your friends and family or published it on Facebook it would be illegal ."

@RunningInChaoticCircles

I agree with this and honestly, making a firm, assertive and polite request is the way to go. Something along the lines of “I would like to please record this on X for later as I like to hear things back and it helps me remember it in my own away. I do not find formally recorded minutes as helpful” or whatever you want to say. I would never decline. I prefer not be filmed because I’m self aware of it, although less so since teams/zoom etc. That said that’s absolutely my insecurities and nothing to do with you so I’d let you go ahead and smooth my hair. 😉😁

Completely disagree with this rubbish.

Health care professionals can absolutely do down tools and refuse to continue in this situation.
No way any of my colleagues are going to allow filming of surgery on children while a parent is filming surreptitiously or otherwise. Why on earth would a parent want to distract a HCP when they're doing something tricky. Ridiculous, and in some cases parents do it to humiliate their child, so it's a safeguarding issue.
What I will never understand is why during a stressful procedure, a parent will choose to film their distressed child rather than comfort them. 😡Some people should never be allowed to have children.

If you feel you have to delete the footage, ensure it is transcribed accurately first.

TLDR but good for you for protecting yourself and your son.

Social Workers should, like the police, wear body cams for the protection of the public.

In fact anyone working for a local authority / public body in a public facing role should.

There is a Latin quote: Qui male agit, odit lucem. The evildoer hates the light.

Or if you prefer the Bible, John 3:20 - New International Version (1984 Edition) - Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

Others are recorded without consent all the time. They just don’t know it. Until there’s an issue.

I am regularly recorded without my knowledge or consent in peoples homes I have no doubt (I work as an agent). It’s quite standard to have cameras if some sort or another in peoples homes these days. You are allowed to record your space as you wish as it is your private space with restrictions as above of bathrooms and bedrooms where they are others spaces and privacy would be expected.

I have nothing to hide, therefore I have no problem with it…

However, using the footage is where it gets legal!