To record someone in my home without their consent?

[RunningInChaoticCircles]

This is DS’s social worker who came to my home for a meeting. I had an idea that the meeting was be used for nefarious purposes and I was right.

Got it all on video and put in a complaint as have evidence of what was said and was able to go it for exact words. Told them I recorded it.

Council have said I must delete the recording immediately as social worker did not consent.

I checked and from what I read it is not illegal to record someone in YOUR home without their consent (I certainly wouldn’t do it to anyone else apart from council employees!) and keep it for your own use.

Who’s right and WIBU?

Don’t share it.

The recording won't be admissible in court

It's judges who decide what is admissible in court. There are guidelines, but they are just that. And unlawful evidence is used far more than excluded.

You are allowed to do this. What you have to do is transcribe the video/audio recording if you need to use it.

Its always a good idea to protect yourself and record everything

@MaryShelley1818 -personally, i'm glad your leaving in your droves.
simply because
You just took the exact stance "they"do.
op recorded as suspicious. hard evidence verified this.
THATS the REAL issue.
@RunningInChaoticCircles no idea of legal stance.hope yoou get factual response soon. Is awful place to be for you feel need to do that.good luck

in the first link it said that in some instances SW had said to the parents "no concerns" and then said the opposite in court. Do you think they should be allowed to get away with that?

I don't.

If you are straight up and honest, it won't affect you. If you are lying for whatever reason, it will come back to bite you on the arse and you will deserve it.

Social worker here. Agreed teams meetings isnt the same but my initial point of making sure everything you say is accurate and above board stands. I have no issue about being covertly recorded. In fact it would be to my benefit most of the time.

I was recorded as a social worker covertly occasionally and a few times in more up front ways by service users, as well as during formal police video interviews etc.

I don't like being covertly recorded, I think it is dishonest behavior and wouldn't do this to others. That said nothing very exciting was ever recorded.

As another SW has said social work is very relational work and anything covert doesn't help build functional relationships. In my experience the covert recorders were heavily focused on trying to get "gotcha" moments and much less engaged in actually sorting out the issues.

A recording device just placed on a table etc is actually much less distracting and disruptive for everyone as well as being honest for all involved.

If my job involved visiting people's homes, especially where they felt vulnerable for some reason, then yes of course I'd be happy to be recorded. If people are doing their jobs properly what's the issue

As a fellow SEN mum who knows exactly the tactics these people try and use to get parents and families to back down from what they are legally entitled to… well done you. Your son is lucky to have you as a mother.

Yes, recording someone covertly is dirty tactics but it’s a dirty war. They fight dirty so we have to too.

Good luck getting your son what he needs x

It might be your own home, but you are going to use the recording for something other than "private use" so you needed the social worker's consent.

If she/he had not given it, you would have had your concerns confirmed anyway. You could have asked why they did not consent & so on.

@MaryShelley1818 in terns of being recorded at work. Every office i’ve ever worked in i’ve been on CCTV the whole time. Emails and chat conversations backed up to a company server and monitored. I’d absolutely expect that if I got up to any wrongdoing this would be used against me.

Why shouldn’t social workers be subject to the same scrutiny? Some are amazing and wonderful and some are lying pieces of and some I imagine use their access to people’s homes to get up to no good at all. The profession should be subject to the same scrutiny as any other.

I think, for future reference, the way to go is to quote verbatim (transcript) and let them dispute the transcript's accuracy, then say you have proof of the 100% accuracy of the transcript. You are telling them you have a recording, indirectly, and if necessary can prove they are lying.

You’re right, and it’s overwhelmingly because of the reasons you gave earlier.

I’m still a social worker, and while I’d prefer to know I was being recorded for the sake of transparency, I have absolutely no issue with it at all. I totally understand why people would want to. If as a social worker this makes you feel like the vulnerable one, maybe think about why.

If it isn't illegal then they can't do anything about it. Bit sneaky of you though.

OP what are the main differences between the two provisions? What do they offer that interests him?

Sadly your situation is pretty common, with LA’s pushing the cheapest option rather then focusing on what’s best for an individual young adult. It’s the polar opposite of person centred and often results in extremely vulnerable young adults experiencing disastrous placement failure after disastrous placement failure. Very damaging for individuals. If they can afford it, parents often end up getting specialist legal representation to ensure LA’s meet their child’s needs in accordance with their EHCP. Low Tory funding has been a disaster for adult social care.

As a professional I have been recorded (without gaining permission) multiple times by three separate service users. I have no issue with this, I have always been fair, kind, professional and helpful so any recordings will show this.

I’ve worked in social work for many years. I act as if I am being recorded all the time. I’ve been covertly, as well as overtly, recorded.

I take issue with recording when the purpose of the recording is not in the best interests of the individual. I have seen many families splash private and confidential information about their vulnerable relative all over social media, purely to be spiteful to a social worker. These, of course, can be removed but the damage is done by then.

Nefarious purposes are not the social worker or the local authority. The only nefarious behaviour comes from the government who pay lip service to person centred support and will go for the lowest cost option available.
I’m currently working in adult social care and it is not unlawful for a local authority to take their own budgets into account when offering care (e.g. if a day service is cheaper and can meet the legal needs, we do not have to fund the preference of a day service that may give a more fulfilling experience). Fortunately, I work in an area where we are relatively financially stable. My heart goes out to those who approach the local authority in an area with a low adult social care budget.

I think one of my issues is that social work is often about competing narratives and trying to sift through them and work out what is most likely actually happening.

If you are actively deceiving me I'm not going to be inclined to place as much belief in the truth of your narrative because you have shown me that you are deceitful.

This makes my job harder than it needs to be.
Why would I believe what you are telling me when your actions show me you aren't honest.

Just be upfront if you need to record things for yourself.

Exactly

The one interaction I had with an (ex) social worker (who’d moved over to cafcas) was pretty terrible.

She completely misrepresented the content of conversations we’d had and included a bare-faced lie as a ‘gotcha’ in family court.

Throughout our interactions it was very clear that she had developed a set of biases which she applied to her new job.

I would record any future conversations with social workers (or Cafcas) because I wouldn’t trust them to tell the truth, even under oath.

this - and other posters saying the same is my understanding. I work in police complaints and we approach covert evidence like this on a case by case basis.

@MaryShelley1818 - loads of police officers made a similar point to you before we introduced body cams as standard, nearly everyone now agrees they are a fantastic idea, complaints reduced hugely almost immediately - and I'm objective enough to admit that it could be as much due to officers self-censoring their own behaviour because they know they are being recorded as it is potential complaints doing the same AND not bothering with vexatious complaints because they know the recording will disprove them.

I think all social services/police/other public facing staff (also hospital and teachers if I'm honest) should record the majority of their interactions with the public, including phone calls and face to face. Not only does it provide proof if there is a dispute/complaint, it acts as a deterrent and reduces a huge amount of bad behaviour (on both sides). Why do you think so many organisations record their calls (hint: it's primarily NOT for training purposes!)

Do not delete it, if people aren't doing anything wrong then they don't need to be worried about it being recorded. Obviously don't put it on social media or anything, but I would definitely keep it for future proof if needed

It's not illegal to record someone without consent. Professionals have to deal with this a lot though (it's very common!) and it can make people feel really uncomfortable doing their jobs.

Social workers, doctors etc are entirely within their rights to refuse to continue working with you if they find out you are recording and you refuse to stop or refuse to delete them.

It's not illegal for a non professional to record a professional in their home, as long as the recording is for their own purpose (i.e. to keep a record of the meeting). It's best to say to the person at the time that you are recording them, but it's not a requirement.

https://www.transparencyproject.org.uk/press/wp-content/uploads/Whymightparentswanttorecordmeetingsv3mar18.pdf

Never ceases to amaze me how authorities and businesses always think they have the right to record the public, but get angry when the public throw it back at them. They claim they govern, police, etc. by consent 😂

Your home, your right imo. I've no idea what the law says, but I'd have thought it's simply a threat.

Good for you.

My understanding of keeping it legal is that the recording was for your own use. You wanted a record to transcribe everything said or done during the interview. The transcription can be used in evidence. If it did become a court issue it would need a judge to say it was admissable as proof of what was stated in the transcription.