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To be confused about my partner's nationality

1000 replies

ForestryForever · 11/09/2023 22:04

Good evening,
My partner's parents were both born in Wales. They both lived and grew up in Wales. As adults they both left Wales and lived in England, where they remained.
Whilst married and living in England, they had a baby - my partner. My partner was born, raised in and grew up in England, and still lives in England.
What nationality is my partner?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
sunglassesonthetable · 12/09/2023 10:35

But we have the same heritage and birth place so how can that be?

Because it's difficult.

notlucreziaborgia · 12/09/2023 10:35

Dramatic · 12/09/2023 10:30

No it's not, England is a country and if you are born there then you are English.

Again, that isn’t how it works. Repeatedly stating it’s a fact doesn’t actually make it one.

Snugglemonkey · 12/09/2023 10:35

Dramatic · 12/09/2023 10:30

No it's not, England is a country and if you are born there then you are English.

Well, that is bollocks. Many people born there are not entitled to citizenship. The country of England has no real significance in terms of a legally defined nationality. It only exists in terms of those who wish to identify as English.

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 10:36

sunglassesonthetable · 12/09/2023 10:25

Yeah but what I'm saying is that it's so mixed now between the two nations that modern day Welsh people can't claim to be affected by colonisation that happened hundreds of years ago

Do you even know welsh history? Go to Wales and say that. Dear me.

At least that person is willing to acknowledge that Wales exists as a nation! Small mercies on this thread.

ginandtonicwithlimes · 12/09/2023 10:36

pintery · 12/09/2023 10:24

Yeah but what I'm saying is that it's so mixed now between the two nations that modern day Welsh people can't claim to be affected by colonisation that happened hundreds of years ago

🤦‍♀️

How can they not still be affected when their language was almost wiped out and still hasn't recovered, when they are partly governed by English people chosen by English voters and when there are still people around denying the existence of their identity?

Right. I sympathise and I am glad to see that the Welsh language is now on the rise again as it should be but how long should we English (the majority of which weren't even alive then) are to be beaten with this stick about past deeds? Should I be hated for the events of 1284? I dont like this antipathy, hatred at the moment towards English people. My DH lost one set of grandparents in the blitz but he doesn't hate the Germans. I want to continue visiting Wales but I am not sure I want to at the moment.

ISeeMisledPeople · 12/09/2023 10:37

DownNative · 12/09/2023 10:30

@ISeeMisledPeople England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all non-sovereign countries.

They are also REGIONAL parts of the sovereign country known as the United Kingdom.

Only British is a nationality. No passport has English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish as a nationality.

Nah, they aren't regions. They are countries. They are nations.

How many people here really think England is a region of the UK? One? Would be surprised if we got more than that.

Anyway, enough of this ridiculous thread, I have stuff to do!!

KimberleyClark · 12/09/2023 10:38

DaNiYmaOHyd · 12/09/2023 10:34

@Kiswahili, yes you can. There are plenty of non-white people. Not many as a percentage, but they are welsh and they are not white. They've been born in Wales, grown up in Wales, live in Wales and work in Wales. If you watch S4C, there are mixed race actors and presenters.

And black Welsh sportsmen representing Wales.

MasterBeth · 12/09/2023 10:38

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 10:33

I'm not a rugby person. Or whatever sport it is. But as someone who denies the existence of the Welsh as an ethnic group it shouldn't surprise me that you also deny that the Welsh, and presumably the Scottish, are nations. But, yes, honey, I'm the Victorian imperialist here.

You are talking rubbish. You're very confused. I've said no such thing.

Of course Wales and Scotland are nations.

Snugglemonkey · 12/09/2023 10:38

Dramatic · 12/09/2023 10:19

Yeah but what I'm saying is that it's so mixed now between the two nations that modern day Welsh people can't claim to be affected by colonisation that happened hundreds of years ago

There is not really very much point in bothering to engage with this level of ignorance.

🙈

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 10:38

ISeeMisledPeople · 12/09/2023 10:37

Nah, they aren't regions. They are countries. They are nations.

How many people here really think England is a region of the UK? One? Would be surprised if we got more than that.

Anyway, enough of this ridiculous thread, I have stuff to do!!

It's absolutely nuts isn't it? And then people wonder why the poor man reacted the way he did.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 12/09/2023 10:38

According to Duolingo, more than 1.5m people have signed up to learn Welsh and a little shy of half a million are actually actively participating on the course.

I could be wrong, but think it’s fair to assume that the bulk of the active learners are Welsh.

That’s wonderful news – I’m genuinely glad that there’s nothing now stopping non-Welsh-speaking Welsh people from learning Welsh, if they want to.

@Sunglassesonthetable
Dear I - went- to- Uni- in Wales - 30 - years - ago.

Yep.

Did you want to respond to my comment that you quoted, or just repeat and add a few random words? The few words that you repeated were part of my point to those claiming that, because of the historical attempts to suppress and stamp out the Welsh language, they couldn’t possibly learn Welsh now – even though I was able to easily access Welsh language classes nearly 30 years closer to the attempts to suppress the Welsh language.

If you want to say what your actual point/response was, it would be interesting to hear it.

I'm English... do you really, truly see the Welsh as such a completely hugely different culture from the English? Really?

🤦‍♀️

I know that you are English, but surely you don't expect Welsh people to deny the existence of their own distinct cultural identity.

It's insulting to think the other countries in the UK don't have their own pride and culture.

Who has said that Welsh people don’t have their own distinct cultural identity? Of course they do; but even one family will have a different culture from the people who live next door, if you want to be nitpicky about it.

The key point here is ‘similar’. If you spent a week living in Nauru, then a week in Kenya, then El Salvador, then Russia, then Slovakia, then England. Are you truly saying that you wouldn’t find the last week that you were living in a very much more similar culture to your own than the other weeks? Would you really not feel any less 'foreign' if somebody dropped you in Khartoum than if they dropped you in Bath?

The denial of the existence of an ethnic group and the minimising of colonialism by those from the colonial power is quite a big deal to those on the other end of it.

Who is denying that it happened in history? I just don’t see what’s to be gained by continuing to base your identity on it, when you haven’t even (as an ethnic group) made a serious campaign for independence, which you surely could have had if you wanted it, as the Scots could have if they had wanted it.

Do you think that modern-day German people should be forever shamed, blamed and criticised for the atrocities that their government perpetrated? And that was less than a century ago. Should a Jewish person in 2023 automatically hate a German baby?

Panaa · 12/09/2023 10:38

CollagenQueen · 12/09/2023 10:25

The thing is, he is only looking at his parents birthplace, and not going back any further, which is disingenuous.

Where were his grandparents from? Where were their parents from?

We are all a complete mix of ethnicities, so trying to identify as one race only, really makes no sense.

I was born in England. I have lived in Scotland for 20 years. I feel "a bit" Scottish, as this is where my home is, and where I have built a life. I did a My Heritage test, and in fact, I am 30% Scandinavian (plus a few other things). I have never been to that part of the world, and feel no affinity to it whatsoever.

My children's father identifies as Irish, simply because his parents were both born there. My children have been known to tell people they are Irish. But I think a lot of this stems from their Grandparents who just never stopped banging on about Ireland, even though they both left in their teens. Constantly buying the grandchildren Irish sports tops, always supporting Ireland in any sports. It used to annoy me, I felt like saying "You've lived in England for 50 years, when will you choose to assimilate?"

In my experience, the Welsh, Irish and Scottish like to protect their identities fiercely, whereas English people don't seem to get so worked up about it.

But the whole thing is silly, because if your Partner did a My Heritage blood test, he would see that he is made up of several nationalities. We all are.

If he loves Wales so much, and is disgusted to be called English, maybe he should bugger off to Wales and stay there.

There's nothing disingenuous or silly about it and it makes perfect sense.

In my experience, the Welsh, Irish and Scottish like to protect their identities fiercely, whereas English people don't seem to get so worked up about it.

Hmmmm, can you think of any particular reason why that might be? 😅
You're being very disingenuous yourself, or just pure ignorant or rude and offensive.

ginandtonicwithlimes · 12/09/2023 10:39

DaNiYmaOHyd · 12/09/2023 10:34

@Kiswahili, yes you can. There are plenty of non-white people. Not many as a percentage, but they are welsh and they are not white. They've been born in Wales, grown up in Wales, live in Wales and work in Wales. If you watch S4C, there are mixed race actors and presenters.

In the same way you can be mixed race and English.

sunglassesonthetable · 12/09/2023 10:40

They are also REGIONAL parts of the sovereign country known as the United Kingdom.

Bollocks to that. Wales is a nation.

notlucreziaborgia · 12/09/2023 10:40

Dramatic · 12/09/2023 10:34

But we have the same heritage and birth place so how can that be?

Plenty of people would indeed define you as Welsh, based on parentage.

You would reject this though, presumably, because you wouldn’t like someone else defining your identity for you. However, if you’re qualified to state for a fact that he’s English, then it should be fine for others to consider you to be, and call you, Welsh.

Roguebludger · 12/09/2023 10:41

Welsh

Dramatic · 12/09/2023 10:41

Snugglemonkey · 12/09/2023 10:38

There is not really very much point in bothering to engage with this level of ignorance.

🙈

Because what I'm saying is true? I mean should the English still be banging on about their own colonisation?

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 12/09/2023 10:42

Do you even know welsh history? Go to Wales and say that. Dear me.

How far should we go back? Should I now hate Italians, because of how I'm still apparently suffering from the Roman invasion of my country, many centuries before I was born?

Dramatic · 12/09/2023 10:43

notlucreziaborgia · 12/09/2023 10:40

Plenty of people would indeed define you as Welsh, based on parentage.

You would reject this though, presumably, because you wouldn’t like someone else defining your identity for you. However, if you’re qualified to state for a fact that he’s English, then it should be fine for others to consider you to be, and call you, Welsh.

I'm not denying I have Welsh heritage, I find it bizarre that this man is completely denying his birth place and the place he's been brought up in and lived in his entire life.

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 10:43

MasterBeth · 12/09/2023 10:38

You are talking rubbish. You're very confused. I've said no such thing.

Of course Wales and Scotland are nations.

Oh so you just wanted to nitpick about the name of some football thing. Good lord, get a life.

Dramatic · 12/09/2023 10:44

notlucreziaborgia · 12/09/2023 10:40

Plenty of people would indeed define you as Welsh, based on parentage.

You would reject this though, presumably, because you wouldn’t like someone else defining your identity for you. However, if you’re qualified to state for a fact that he’s English, then it should be fine for others to consider you to be, and call you, Welsh.

I certainly wouldn't start screaming and shouting at my partner if they told someone I was Welsh.

sunglassesonthetable · 12/09/2023 10:44

Yeah but what I'm saying is that it's so mixed now between the two nations that modern day Welsh people can't claim to be affected by colonisation that happened hundreds of years ago

Entirely ignorant and wrong.
Or just arse.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 12/09/2023 10:44

FWIW, in the actual scenario of this thread, if OP's DP doesn't want to culturally identify as British, then I would say that he is Welsh, rather than English, as both of his parents are Welsh.

Panaa · 12/09/2023 10:44

Dramatic · 12/09/2023 10:30

No it's not, England is a country and if you are born there then you are English.

So if someone has English parents whose entire family trees were English but they just happened to be born in China when their parents took a trip there would you insist the baby was Chinese?

notlucreziaborgia · 12/09/2023 10:44

Dramatic · 12/09/2023 10:43

I'm not denying I have Welsh heritage, I find it bizarre that this man is completely denying his birth place and the place he's been brought up in and lived in his entire life.

How is he denying it? He’s not denied he was born and raised in England, he was. What he’s said is that he isn’t English, because he isn’t.

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