Page 24 | To be confused about my partner's nationality

ForestryForever · 2023-09-11T21:04:21+00:00

Good evening, My partner's parents were both born in Wales. They both lived and grew up in Wales. As adults they both left Wales and lived in England, where they remained. Whilst married and living in England, they had a baby - my partner. My partner was born, raised in and grew up in England, and still lives in England. What nationality is my partner?

zozueme · 12/09/2023 08:34

Legally his nationality is British.
He would be eligible to represent either Wales or England in international sport.
If he considers himself Welsh then he's Welsh.
If he considered himself English then he would be English.
Whether he is English or Welsh is not a fact - no one can say but him. But I do agree he's not half Welsh half English 🙂

Kiswahili · 12/09/2023 08:35

She is not Zambian , oppression, racism, segregation, power. We know what was going on in "North and South Rhodesia". The mass killer Dylan Roof was obsessed with it.

Democratic republic of the Congo , it's not Belgian 'Congo'.

Shoxfordian · 12/09/2023 08:37

He sounds like a knob but they can be any nationality. I would say he’s British or if it’s welsh or English then it’s English because he was born in England - simple

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 08:38

zozueme · 12/09/2023 08:34

Legally his nationality is British.
He would be eligible to represent either Wales or England in international sport.
If he considers himself Welsh then he's Welsh.
If he considered himself English then he would be English.
Whether he is English or Welsh is not a fact - no one can say but him. But I do agree he's not half Welsh half English 🙂

It is a fact that he is Welsh by ethnicity. Welsh is an ethnic group, and people with two Welsh parents belong to it. Biology is a fact. Many people use the term nationality as synonymous with ethnicity, if they do then it's also simply a fact that he's Welsh by nationality.

Booklover40 · 12/09/2023 08:38

And you have strong, specific (weird) opinions for someone who doesn’t care what his nationality is.

Yes, you're right I'm soooo weird! Ouch that really hurts my feelings 😂

I'm more concerned for the OP that she seems to be with an angry man-child who uses his nationality (or lack of it) as a stick to beat her with. He sounds like he has an identity crisis. Why get so angry with her about it? It's the complete overreaction and the anger that stood out to me. Not a good sign IMO...

Prettypaisleyslippers · 12/09/2023 08:39

Let him be Welsh? Why does it matter to you?

bruffin · 12/09/2023 08:40

ForestryForever · 11/09/2023 22:32

Because this evening I was recounting a conversation I'd had with someone today. I told partner ".....and then I said to them that you're half Welsh, because your parents were Welsh but you were born in England and grew up in England...."
Before I could finish he hot really angry. Started ranting. "WHAT???? WHAT???? YOU TOLD THEM I'M HALF WELSH?!?!? HALF WELSH?!?!?!? I'M WELSH!!!! I AM NOT ENGLISH!!!! DON'T TELL PEOPLE I'M HALF WELSH HALF ENGLISH!!!!"
Then he started going in to one about Joanna Lumley being English, with English parents, born in India, but calls herself English despite being born in and living in India as a child. "SHE DOESN'T CALL HERSELF INDIAN JUST BECAUSE SHE WAS BORN IN INDIA DOES SHE?!?! CASE IN POINT!!!!".
So I'm wondering who's right.
And I don't get all this 'whatever he identifies with'. Surely there's a factual, objective answer, not a subjective one.

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He is not half Welsh, his heritage is 100% Welsh

My Mother was from Welsh borders, all Jones and Evans, they moved across the border then back again. My mother counted her self as Welsh, although none of my family were Welsh speaking.
My Father was Greek Cypriot came to London when he was early 20s and so did my DM where they met.
I count my heritage as Half Welsh, Half Greek Cypriot! Nationality as British , but would also say I'm English.
My DNA report is a melting pot of Greek/Italian/Iberian/Middle Eastern and North/Western European. I lot of welsh people have Iberian DNA due to Portugeuse/Spanish landing in Wales 1000s of years ago.

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 08:40

Shoxfordian · 12/09/2023 08:37

He sounds like a knob but they can be any nationality. I would say he’s British or if it’s welsh or English then it’s English because he was born in England - simple

English nationality, in the sense of being a UK citizen, is not based on being born in England. It's your country, you should know this.

Bearbookagainandagain · 12/09/2023 08:40

@ForestryForever Generally what matters when determining nationality is either the nationality of your parents or where you are born.
In England, it is the nationality of your parents so I would go with that: he is Welsh.

If you replace "Wales" with any other foreign country, you do not get the English (or rather British) nationality automatically because you were born in England. You have to live in England AND apply for it - so show a willingness to be recognised as an English national. Clearly that's not the case for your partner!

Womencanlift · 12/09/2023 08:41

ForestryForever · 12/09/2023 07:46

Can the people using passports as an example understand that we have BRITISH passports.
We don't get ENGLISH or WELSH passports.
For the record, my partner specifically states that he does not identify with being British.
So to everyone saying he's British, the issue here is whether he is Welsh or English.
And I mean this is factual, literal terms.
Not what he identifies with.
He is saying it's not that he 'identifies' with being Welsh. He says in literal terms, he IS 100% Welsh.
I'm asking the question to see if someone knows the literal answer. We are NOT talking about identity. My partner is not talking about identify.
I'm not trying to stamp down on his identity.
I accept about being wrong about saying 'half Welsh'. What I meant by this is that he's part Welsh because his parents were Welsh, but part English because he was born in England, raised in England, still to this day lives in England, speaks English, never lived in Wales, has no living relatives in Wales......so to me he's part English, part Welsh. I should have used the word 'part' not 'half'. I've apolohised and explained this to him last night. He got angry again and said "I AM WELSH AND ONLY WELSH!!!!! I AM NOT IN ANY WAY ENGLISH!!!"

Bloody he’ll both you and your partner are overly aggressive on what is a lighthearted topic. You wanted a factual answer - well the factual answer is he is British, regardless whether he likes that or not. Until there are four separate nations, British will take precedence legally and the home nation you associate with is a preference

Laalaala · 12/09/2023 08:42

ForestryForever · 12/09/2023 07:46

Can the people using passports as an example understand that we have BRITISH passports.
We don't get ENGLISH or WELSH passports.
For the record, my partner specifically states that he does not identify with being British.
So to everyone saying he's British, the issue here is whether he is Welsh or English.
And I mean this is factual, literal terms.
Not what he identifies with.
He is saying it's not that he 'identifies' with being Welsh. He says in literal terms, he IS 100% Welsh.
I'm asking the question to see if someone knows the literal answer. We are NOT talking about identity. My partner is not talking about identify.
I'm not trying to stamp down on his identity.
I accept about being wrong about saying 'half Welsh'. What I meant by this is that he's part Welsh because his parents were Welsh, but part English because he was born in England, raised in England, still to this day lives in England, speaks English, never lived in Wales, has no living relatives in Wales......so to me he's part English, part Welsh. I should have used the word 'part' not 'half'. I've apolohised and explained this to him last night. He got angry again and said "I AM WELSH AND ONLY WELSH!!!!! I AM NOT IN ANY WAY ENGLISH!!!"

It's weird that he lives in England but hates the English so much. Maybe he should move to Wales and learn to speak Welsh? My mum was born in England and has only ever lived here. She's not ethnically English (not even Caucasian) but she is still British. Your husband is British.

MrsRachelDanvers · 12/09/2023 08:42

GoogleWhacked · 12/09/2023 08:28

So if your English parents happened to be on holiday in Wales when you were born that world make you Welsh?? BS!

The man says he's Welsh, so he's Welsh. The fact that the OP is trying to use MN as some kind of gotcha to prove to her partner otherwise I find disgusting.

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The guy has been born and brought up in England. He can’t speak a word of the language and frankly I think he’s being ridiculous to start shouting at his partner. He’s British with a Welsh background. My husband has Welsh parents who settled in England-his widowed father has moved back to Wales. But my dh would think it ridiculous to call himself Welsh when he’s lived all his life in England. As would I with my Welsh mother. And ethnically, there’s been so much mingling over the centuries there would be very few people left with Celtic ethnicity. But for me, the main issue here is the fact he blows up and shouts when his partner calls him part Welsh-why has it touched such a nerve?

notlucreziaborgia · 12/09/2023 08:44

Shoxfordian · 12/09/2023 08:37

He sounds like a knob but they can be any nationality. I would say he’s British or if it’s welsh or English then it’s English because he was born in England - simple

How does he sound like a knob? Because he doesn’t like being told that he’s English? Why would he, considering her isn’t?

He’s Welsh, born to two Welsh parents. Being born in a different nation/country to your parents doesn’t endow someone with a different ethnic identity. It may in some cases endow them with a separate citizenship if said birth happens in a jus solis country, but that isn’t the same thing.

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 08:44

Womencanlift · 12/09/2023 08:41

Bloody he’ll both you and your partner are overly aggressive on what is a lighthearted topic. You wanted a factual answer - well the factual answer is he is British, regardless whether he likes that or not. Until there are four separate nations, British will take precedence legally and the home nation you associate with is a preference

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States and nations are not the same thing. She's not asking what he is legally or what he 'associates with as a preference'. You don't understand the issue, which is why you think it's a lighthearted topic.

Shoxfordian · 12/09/2023 08:44

@Pollyputhekettleon Welsh is not a separate ethnicity though

Lelliekellie · 12/09/2023 08:45

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 08:27

Legally, no. Or are you another one who believes anyone born in England is entitled to English citizenship?

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I actually would say British (as if you are born in England you are British by birth). But given the OP wants to know Welsh or English. I would say English. As he wasn’t born in Wales. Clearly you have some deep rooted issue with English citizenship jeez

felisha54 · 12/09/2023 08:45

My nephew was born in Spain to two Irish parents. Attends an international school, doesn't speak Spanish and is not embedded in Spanish culture. Majority of his peers are described as Russian, Swedish, British, Irish etc the school website says it represents over 50 nationalities, majority of children born in Spain. Nephew and dsis say he's Irish and he has an Irish passport. Would never describe nephew as Spanish just because he was born there.

Snugglemonkey · 12/09/2023 08:45

Peony26 · 11/09/2023 23:18

He’s English, he was born and raised in England. His parents are Welsh, and he might prefer his welsh heritage but doesn’t make him welsh

Yes it does.

Shoxfordian · 12/09/2023 08:46

@notlucreziaborgia He doesn’t need to shout at her though does he? He could explain himself calmly and talk nicely to her - that’s why he sounds like a knob

Wakintoblueskies · 12/09/2023 08:47

Damnloginpopup Can you pls link the source of paternal’s lines being the root of an offspring’s ethnicity?

It doesn’t appear to have been the case for Meghan Markle when she lived in the UK?

Lelliekellie · 12/09/2023 08:47

ZadocPDederick · 12/09/2023 08:28

Nonsense. I was born in India because my British parents were working there at the time. I'm not Indian, I'm British.

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Good for you. What’s your passport say? And the issue isn’t being British. He obviously is British. OP asked Welsh or English and given he was born in England then he’d be English

ginandtonicwithlimes · 12/09/2023 08:47

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 08:38

It is a fact that he is Welsh by ethnicity. Welsh is an ethnic group, and people with two Welsh parents belong to it. Biology is a fact. Many people use the term nationality as synonymous with ethnicity, if they do then it's also simply a fact that he's Welsh by nationality.

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Yet I reckon you wouldn't say a child born of two English parents in Cardiff is English by ethnicity would you? You would say they are Welsh. Welsh isn't a ethnicity anyway as I presumed that is to do with skin colour?

notlucreziaborgia · 12/09/2023 08:47

Shoxfordian · 12/09/2023 08:44

@Pollyputhekettleon Welsh is not a separate ethnicity though

Yes, it is.

boocoo · 12/09/2023 08:48

English nationality, in the sense of being a UK citizen, is not based on being born in England. It's your country, you should know this

Except when it is (although there is no such thing as English nationality)

Pollyputhekettleon · 12/09/2023 08:48

MrsRachelDanvers · 12/09/2023 08:42

The guy has been born and brought up in England. He can’t speak a word of the language and frankly I think he’s being ridiculous to start shouting at his partner. He’s British with a Welsh background. My husband has Welsh parents who settled in England-his widowed father has moved back to Wales. But my dh would think it ridiculous to call himself Welsh when he’s lived all his life in England. As would I with my Welsh mother. And ethnically, there’s been so much mingling over the centuries there would be very few people left with Celtic ethnicity. But for me, the main issue here is the fact he blows up and shouts when his partner calls him part Welsh-why has it touched such a nerve?

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Welsh is an ethnic group and they are biologically and genetically distinguishable from the English. As are the inhabitants of Cornwall and Devon by the way, including from each other. The majority of people didn't move far at all from where they were born for most of history, which is how ethnicities formed. Irish and Scottish people also still exist. Most people are not of mixed ethnicity. People get annoyed when you claim their ethnic group doesn't exist. You can understand that.