To be confused about my partner's nationality

[ForestryForever]

Good evening,
My partner's parents were both born in Wales. They both lived and grew up in Wales. As adults they both left Wales and lived in England, where they remained.
Whilst married and living in England, they had a baby - my partner. My partner was born, raised in and grew up in England, and still lives in England.
What nationality is my partner?

Wales is a country but so is the United Kingdom. He is British.

As for whether he is English or Welsh, since, unlike the United Kingdom, neither country has any rules as to what makes someone a legal citizen, he can choose whichever he wants. He was born in England to Welsh parents, so he can be English, Welsh or both. Indeed, if both countries adopted the UK's rules on citizenship, that would still be the situation.

He says he's Welsh, therefore he is Welsh.
The answers on MN don't change that. The fact that you are trying to undermine that is weird.

I really don't think it matters. If he has been brought up in England by proudly Welsh parents he probably does identify as Welsh. So if he wants to call himself Welsh then I think go for it.

My parents are Welsh, I was born in England but have also lived for long periods in Wales. I consider myself English as I've lived in England the longest and was born here.

There's plenty of Americans born in America who's parents were also born in America but they call themselves Italians...or sometimes Scottish (see Trump)

British , who is welsh. Wales is not a sovereign country. There's no Welsh passports, just like There's no Montserrat passport. We are British.

I’d say Welsh, my DH wasn’t born in Britain, my children consider themselves to be half and half and they are being raised by both of us and both of our cultures.

All that said, if this is a hill he wants to die on, let him and drop the conversation.

For reference, I grew up entirely outside of the UK (I am not British by birth and never lived in the UK until I was 30). I hold a passport from my home country and also a British passport.

If someone asked me 'what I am' the answer would be different depending on the context. I personally most identify as being British, because that is where my life is, my family, it's the only place I'll ever live the rest of my life, it's where I own a home, where I'll be buried when I die. If the context relates to my cultural history, I would say I'm from my home country, as that is where my traditions and mannerisms and some of my language come from. And depending on the circumstances, I get raised eyes if I give the wrong answer, as I'm sure your partner may too.

Let him be whatever he wants to be if he's happy. I couldn't be asked with going around arguing with dh about whether his grandparents who grew up in Wales and his dad who was 100% welsh mean he is part welsh or not. Life is too short. Don't tolerate him being a wanker about it though.

If he was born in England, he's probably not 'only' Welsh, but does it really matter? He can be 100% Welsh and 100% English for different reasons.

I am 100% more than one nationality (and they are very different unconnected countries), but I'm 100% of each of them. Legally that is. That's because I'm a full citizen of each country.

I do understand where your DH is coming from when he says he is 100% Welsh. My primary national identity comes from the fact all my family are in the one country, I was raised with the food, values and culture of that one country, I think of that as the home land of origin. That's where all my roots are. I identify as an immigrant from that country even though I was born in the other and have spent way more time there (birth is why I have that citizenship, my parents are not citizens of that country themselves. Descent is why I have the other).

Maybe that helps a bit? Are all your husband's family going back centuries Welsh?

Some folk would say Welsh because that's what his parents are. Some would say English because that's where he was born and brought up.

You're not getting it OP.

Are you familiar with gender theory? Do you understand that some people believe gender to be a matter purely of subjective identity?

Well, the same ideology, critical theory, is applied to other categories also, especially categories that could make certain groups feel 'othered' by a group designated as privileged. You believe it's an objective question of fact. Other people believe it's either a mixture of objective fact and subjective feelings. Others believe it's entirely a matter of subjective feelings and chosen identity. Others think we're talking about citizenship because that's what they think the word nationality means, that's why they keep going on about passports.

Your husband understands the term nationality to mean ethnicity and to be an objective, biological fact. That's why he's quite certain that he's 100% Welsh.

it sounds like, For you to have a peaceful life, he's Welsh, OP.

@TheMountainsCall but to be a dual citizen, you need 2 countries. England and Wales are not sovereign countries.

You can't be a citizen of Wales because citizenship refers to States and Wales is not a State. The term country is more confusing because people mean entirely different things by it. Some use it as synonymous with State, others as synonymous with nation.

Whichever he wants, obviously

Why can't you just let it go?

By now you've had many many responses that basically tell you he can decide if he feels Welsh or English. He feels Welsh, so therefore he is. There's no need to continue to pick over it, or find something to prove him wrong. Just accept what he's told you and move on?

It will have ‘British citizen’ in the Nationality field. So his legal nationality is British. If OP wants a definitive answer then that’s it. His national identity/cultural identity/heritage/whatever you want to call it however is Welsh. And that’s fine. Some people have more than one nationality (I do) and a cultural identity they doesn’t align with either nationality. That’s fine too.

Your partner needs to cool his beans

I know, I just thought it might explain a bit why OP's DH feels more tied to his Welsh origins.

There's a pretty common view in Scotland (which I share) that anyone who lives here in Scotland is considered Scottish (if they want to be).

And so your friend is of course Scottish. He's settled in Scotland and is raising his family here.

Residency was all that mattered when it came to having a vote in the Scottish referendum. Ethnicity / parentage / heritage didn't matter, which I recall upset an awful lot of people who grew up in Scotland but moved away years ago.

Can the people using passports as an example understand that we have BRITISH passports.
We don't get ENGLISH or WELSH passports.
For the record, my partner specifically states that he does not identify with being British.
So to everyone saying he's British, the issue here is whether he is Welsh or English.
And I mean this is factual, literal terms.
Not what he identifies with.
And as lots of people have tried to explain the only "factual, literal terms" in which it can be defined are his passport. There is no "factual, literal framework" to determine Englishness or Welshness. So identifying is all there is. Which is why the answer is still British whether he likes it or not and at the same time Welsh whether you like it or not, because he does like it

Okey, I get your point. I personally don't like the name of the country, because it doesn't include me or the millions of Black people living in OS territories. So we do we belong to? Scotland, N.Ireland ; England or Wales?

Op you seem to be getting fairly upset at peoples responses.
Maybe it who’d help if you can define what you mean by nationality. If not related to legal/passport nationality and not related to identity then what definition of ‘nationality’ are you holding in your mind?

I suspect that’s a hard questions to answer. I know I’d find it hard to answer and everyone has a slightly different definition of what it means to be welsh or English I suspect. There in lies the issue. That’s why you are asking an impossible question.

I'm English... do you really, truly see the Welsh as such a completely hugely different culture from the English? Really?

🤦‍♀️

I know that you are English, but surely you don't expect Welsh people to deny the existence of their own distinct cultural identity.

As a Welsh person I would say he was English. One of my parents is English and my husband is English but my children and I were born and bred in Wales and are most definitely Welsh. I think most Welsh people would describe your partner as English.

OP, he’s Welsh. Just as you would be English (assuming your parents are English) if you were born and raised in France. You would not be part French.

It does not matter what we think. He has the right to identify how he pleases.