Mrs and Mr Smith

[Oysterbabe]

When I write client letters I always put the woman's name first in the address and write
Dear Mrs & Mr Smith. The letters have to be checked before posting and my boss always swaps the names back because 'it doesn't flow properly'
AIBU for always writing the woman's name first?

I want consistency and professionalism, not personal touches

Works for me ... as I said, indulge the personal politics in your own time and focus instead on practical inclusivity in the workplace instead of tokenism

Yanbu! Ladies first n all.

My boss does this too. It's always Mr and Mrs not the other way round.

If he is writing to a Mr only, he addresses the letter as A Smith Esq.

Who does that in this day and age?!

I don't know why it's not just free text instead of a drop-down. There's professors and monseigneurs and his/he excellencies and lords and his/her graces out there, so you either end up with a list off the bottom of the screen or missing people's titles out.

Excuse my language but I fucking hate that.

Mr and Mrs Joe Bloggs... Mr & Mrs Bloggs, fine, I am Mrs Bloggs so that's OK, but Mr and Mrs Joe Bloggs - where's my name gone??

This kind of shit is why I kept my maiden name.

As for the OP, Mrs and Mr has exactly the same amount of syllables as Mr and Mrs, so a PP is correct - it only doesn't sound like it flows, because you don't commonly hear it.

If I was writing a professional letter to two people though, I would primarily address it to whoever I spoke to more.

If I were the primary point of contact for something, and they addressed a letter or email to my husband first, I'd not be impressed.

When I write my Christmas cards, if I'm sending it to a female friend and her husband, I just address the envelope to her.

You're fighting the wrong battle. If the wife had taken her husband's name, he has absorbed her into his identity and the letter can be addressed Mr and Mrs John Smith. Her existence exists within his.

If women kept their own name, this wouldn't happen. Alternatively, adopt the wife's name for the family and use Mrs and Mr Jane Smith.

I work for what used to be a "traditional" firm that did this. I soon nipped it in the bud when I became senior enough to have sway.

Also got rid of "Dear Sirs" that used to go on letters with no named recipient and replaced it with "Dear Sir or Madam".

Even my male manager started changing things when he got a chance too as the traditional sexist bollocks drove us both up the wall!

I always write Dear Madam or Sir

I should definitely start doing this, but most of the time I use it, it's when I'm writing to banks so it's not going to make a jot of difference to them.

To those who said they flow better, that will be because of centuries of everyday sexism drumming into us that men come first in every way. Thank you @Oysterbabe for trying to make a tiny bit of difference. Why on earth would anyone oppose this??

In related threads, I found this:

Flatmountains · 13/09/2022 08:14
I used to enjoy asking people what their title was, when I worked in a call centre. I got one Lord and one Reverend. The Reverend was jolly glad I didn't just say Miss or Mrs? Some men used to get into a right old tizzy when I asked what their title was.

Note that last sentence. Seems that men really don't like it when they get treated like women about titles. Women having to choose a title when men usually don't is an aspect of patriarchy, even without the interferences made about our political views based on the choice we make.

I can think of other hills I'd rather die on. But, neither Mr & Mrs or Mrs & Mr are wrong or right - it's just what we're used to hearing and putting the Mr first definitely flows better. I'm even struggling to actually say Mrs & Mr coherently (and wonder how many other people reading this post are gurning away at the same time!).

To be honest, if you're writing the letters and know that your boss will check them and amend them, why on earth are you making extra work for yourself? If I was your boss, I'd think you were just being rather truculent by insisting on doing this every time, knowing you are ultimately going to end up changing it....

Why are you disclosing the woman's married status? That's quite mysoginistic in itself.

The same way that people will oppose lots of things, such as calling out racism, homophobia etc...

Very old fashioned. Gives me the rage when people write to Mr & Mrs Bob Yellow. I did not take my DH's first name on marriage, or his second for that matter. I've had it written on a letter from someone who has stuck to their maiden name, which is admirable. But then becomes beyond hypocrisy when it's apparently different for 'other women', and become quite pa when pointed out I have kept my own name.

Mr & Mrs is technically correct so you're probably being a bit unreasonable. Having said that, I'm the lead person on our water account and it makes me very happy that our bills come addressed to Mrs FirstName LastName & Mr FirstName LastName 😅

LOL that's really odd. Why do you do that?! Do you say Dec and Ant too?!

Exactly. For those who insist that they 'don't see a problem', just consider for a minute whether the issue affects men and women equally.

And when you find that it doesn't, please explain why you think only women should put up with being treated as less important and from having assumptions made about them due to the choices they make.

😁Good one!

tbh If the woman has changed her name she’s bought in to the whole “Mr and Mrs” thing and won’t be happy with a non traditional address.

personally I think titles need ditching anyway.

what does piss me off is when i’ve arranged something, done all the work, paid for it- for example a holiday- and at some point time me as the lead passenger is swapped for Dh.

I have to say, in a quarter century of being married to my husband, we have NEVER received a letter or any correspondence saying 'Mr and Mrs Carl Jackson..' Never happened. I would find that strange. It's always Mr and Mrs C Jackson. That could be sort of taking his first name for both, but my initial is the same as his (I am Caroline.) So it works for me too.

(Not real names obvs!)

It’s not just because we’re used of saying it that it flows better, it is actually easier to say Me & Mrs. Just like Marks & Spencer is easier to say than Spencer & Marks. It just phonetically flows in a better fashion.

Well if you're writing to Mrs and Mr X together, it's highly likely that they're both married, to each other.

However, Mrs X on her own may be married, she may not be. She could be divorced, or widowed, I know as many divorced Mrs as I do married ones, so she could just use Mrs in preference to Miss or Ms.

Likewise for Miss Y and Ms Z, because titles are inconsistently used and pretty meaningless now, you can't really make any assumptions about title and marital status.

I appreciate a little rebellion

"If she's a doctor and he's not the convention is Mr and Dr Smith"

Incorrect. If you are being mindful of etiquette, the person with a professional title is always listed first.