Unspoken grief childless men

[Needanewnamebeingwatched]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/28/unspoken-grief-childless-men

What are you thoughts on this report from a man who never had children and regrets it bitterly

Many people come to the realisation that they've left it to late, male and female

It's sad, of course it is. Lots of people of both sexes are desperate for a relationship but can't find someone

Some really hard hearted responses on here

Biologically, men may have no cut off point in their fertility, although of course the younger the better in that sense too. In practice, however, men too can 'leave it too late' because there comes a point where fertile young women just won't be interested in them.

Male fertility starts to decline at 40 or so. They have cut off and that few making babies in 70s-80s are exception or IVF (the latter not that heavily advertised) . I know Al-Pacino is saying his kid is actually his but who knows.

Agreed.

There's only a certain amount of sympathy one can summon in life. I reserve none of it for men as a group.

But no one and certainly not the journalist is talking about “sympathy for men as a group”

The bitching about him admitting he is worried about not having anyone to care for him when older is interesting....because that's the sort of comment that women without children get on a regular basis on here. Why is it supposedly ok for women to worry about that and not men?

I'm very happily childfree by choice and, personally, don't worry about the above, but for people who saw children as being part of their lives but for some reason didn't/couldn't have them then it is sad.

Many people have relationships where one partner does not want children, so they have to choose between staying and accepting that or leaving.

Some people find that they don't meet someone who they feel committed to enough for children until the time js too late.

Some of those people are men. That does not mean that they are inherently bad people, just that they share some experiences with women.

I too am mystified sometimes by the double standards and mental gymnastics that go on on here to class all men as bastards.

But becoming a parent doesn't just 'happen'. You have to make it happen.

If someone, male or female, chooses to prioritise career or other interests over starting a family, that's a choice they make. And like all choices, it will have consequences. It's not like someone turns around at 40 and suddenly realises they may have left it too late. Everyone knows that fertility declines with age.

Seriously?

There’s a sense of selfishness and naivety from the man in the story. I can’t really feel sorry for him. He wanted to have a youth free of commitment and responsibility and then expected the Hollywood ending when most women his age were too old
to be having babies. He appears to have ruled out women with children already. Step parenting can be hugely rewarding and would have been the perfect fix but he wanted to continue his bloodline, have his own sperm do the job… and that kind of loses my sympathy.

He had opportunities but he wanted it on his own terms. He FAFO’d.

Childless men then. There are just so many causes I would shed tears for first.

So I am less sorry for them than women who might have wanted children but never met the right man. Because many men don’t make themselves properly marriageable.

exactly

it’s been my experience of men throughout my life

@NeverDropYourMooncup ,
Possibly an extreme case, but this is exactly the type I was thinking of.

I’ve also known one who although once married at a suitable age, and very successful career-wise, was too mean with money and unwilling to compromise his lifestyle, to have children.

It was only when he was 60+ that I heard him say he regretted it, but that was IMO largely because he’d begun to think that nobody was going to give much of a toss when he became very old/ill/frail, let alone mourn him when he died.

Whereas the Pp you initially agreed with - feels no sympathy for men per se. Irrespective of any detail whatsoever

I agree.

One poster hit the nail on the head when they said 'there's some real man haters on here...' And I reiterate, when these same people say 'ooh these men have left it too late. Boo hoo. What a shame. I don't feel sorry for them;' would they say the same if it was a woman around 40 who had put her career and social life first and was longing for a baby but was struggling to conceive??? Would they say that then?! ('Boo hoo what a shame, I don't feel sorry for you!') No they would not. Because they'd be roasted alive on here.

Mumsnet double standards at their finest!!!

Exactly . I actually think I was treated with more respect when I had growing kids and now they are grown and we are back to just being a couple I am now being treated like I am a waste of space and of low status and by my own kids as it happens . Fucking insulting .

Its weird to see children being spoken about as a resource, something thats good for men's personal development. I hear women talking about the unexpected bonuses that are a result of having and raising children. But thats not a reason to have them. And plenty of older people who have children are lonely; their kids have their own lives.

@StinkyWizzleteets

There’s a sense of selfishness and naivety from the man in the story. I can’t really feel sorry for him. He wanted to have a youth free of commitment and responsibility and then expected the Hollywood ending...

Do you say the same about women who left it too late?' Are they 'selfish' and 'naïve' too?

There's only a certain amount of sympathy one can summon in life. I reserve none of it for men as a group.

Never heard of sympathy being limited or held in reserve. Odd .

I agree. This needs to be talked about more. Not in a who's deserving of sympathy more but the very reality that many many men see children and family as a low priority until it's too late. From my experience I met many men in their mid to late 30s who didn't have the maturity to see that by the time they were ready in their early forties, the women with whom they'd had long term relationships had moved on due to lack of commitment from the man.
I agree with a previous poster that it's often due to an unrealised sense of entititlement.
One of my husbands friends is in his fifties as we are but still finds it difficult to meet women because in his head he thinks young beautiful women are his ideal. He was shocked when I pointed out the women who are of his age. He couldn't get his head round that this was his peer group of possibilities. He is not an anomaly among men.

Did you read the story linked? I spoke solely about that and not a generic person who left it too late for a multitude of potential reasons.

I know plenty who didn’t have children because they didn’t meet the right person until it was too late and I have a lot of sympathy for them. I know plenty of people unable to conceive and I have masses of sympathy for them.I know people who hit their 50s and regret not having kids so someone can look after them in old age but who didn’t want the responsibility in their 30s and 40s and I have no sympathy for them. Doesn’t matter if they’re male or female.

Anyone who complains because they decided to put their own social lives and careers first and then realised it was too late when there wasn’t work to do or parties to go to, then tough shit. The guy in the story wanted to sew his own seed, not raise any child, he comments about women who already have children as if they not an option. If he was that desperate for kids to love he wouldn’t rule that out. It’s selfishness on his part.

how many women do you see on these forums getting berated for being pregnant over 40? They get called selfish and naive all the time too.

He expected a breeding vessel to be available in his old age to provide cheap carers in his dotage. I have no sympathy. He took a gamble and he lost.

some of the main reasons women don’t have children in their 20/30s is due to not feeling like they can/or can afford take a career break and the men around them not wanting to settle down.
Quite often the reason men haven’t had children is because at that age is because they just don’t want them.
It is slightly different. I think that’s why the sympathy is different. Men aren’t putting off having children because of their career progression usually.

As a childless/child free woman I feel his pain and regret. No one will be there for me when I'm old and senile, maybe my younger brother. I didn't leave it too late, I was in a shit marriage (which for some reason I stayed in) and made the decision not to bring a child into it. Then when we split up when I was 40, I felt the time was gone as I would also need to find a man I wanted to do that with.

I've resigned myself to not having any and living a fulfilling life doesn't mean I don't regret not having them.

I am also on a male-dominated forum in addition to MN and almost every week there'll be posts and comments with thousands of upvotes advising men to "get capital" because the good looking women all go for men in their 40s and up.

The prevailing theory is that if you're of average attractiveness, you'll be able to get a much hotter 20-something year old girlfriend/wife when you're 40+ and wealthy than if you settle for someone average in your 20s.

This isn't just an online thing. I did computer science in uni and so many of my classmates-turned-"techbros" definitely think like this.

Of course, I do feel for genuine men who have been unlucky with relationships and never got a chance to have kids. I don't, however, feel sympathy for any men who feel entitled to much younger women.

The whole idea that having kids means you have someone to look after you when you're old gives me the ick. Regardless of who says it. Its selfish and entitled.

I have one child, and I fully intend for her to go out into the world and have the best time she can. My elderly care doesn't come into my thinking at all. Kids should not have the pressure of being expected to look after elderly parents or any other relative 'just because'.

Ah so it's just 50% of the population you can't empathise with... got it

Me too @Cheatingquestion amd made tougher by seeing some of my male contemporaries eventually settling down with a much younger woman and having children. The reverse is just not available to women.