Unspoken grief childless men

[Needanewnamebeingwatched]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/28/unspoken-grief-childless-men

What are you thoughts on this report from a man who never had children and regrets it bitterly

I'm sure if he won the Lotto he'd have no shortage of young female suitors willing to have his babies!

@PleaseGiveMeBackMySummer , there is an absolute epidemic in this country of men that drop the families they do have and don't make any further meaningful parenting contribution, financial or otherwise.

This is a forum of women that deal with the consequences of that. Too bloody right there is a double standard.

As well as that, there are legions of men that are future fakers and commitment phones that women waste their fertile years on.

Reading between the lines of the interview, he comes across as having had lots of not very serious relationships right up to the age of 40.

He refers to his sheltered upbringing and wanting to 'experience' a lot once he was able to. He also says he was 'complacent' suggesting he didn't get his head in gear about being a father until the pool of women available was much smaller.

It sounds like he was sowing his wild oats, as they say, rather than settling down. And then when he started thinking about having children in his 40s, he found women his age already had some or didn't want any (more.)

I have a couple of male friends who don't have children. One married late in life to a woman with 4 children already, another married (again) to someone who was that little bit too old to risk having a child.

They don't really regret it because like the man in the feature, it was never a priority and if had been I think they would have made different like choices.

I feel sorry for men like this the same way I'd feel sorry for a woman in the same position - who didn't realise until it was too late.

I was scathing about the author earlier based on the extract from his book, which I found daft. Yet I do feel sympathy for him and feel he's doing men a service by raising the issue. Good on him.

He’s assuming he would have been a good parent in his 20s/30s. In fact he could have done what millions of men have done and just buggered off.

I’m childless (though call myself childfree not by choice now) and started ttc at 29. I don’t think any reasonable person could think I left it too late.

Hear, hear. I am my mother's carer. She certainly wouldn't have wanted it, it is unfortunately just how things happened. I would severely side-eye anyone wanting to have children as future caregivers or even unpaid companions.

It's not so much caring gor them but even advocating for them. My dad didn't care for my grandmother but he fight for her to have care she needed, made sure he visited and that we visited When he was dying my brother and I did the same. We also now sort out my mother bank accounts, call people when she needs, makes sure she isn't getting ripped off by her broadband etc. Not many adults would be full time carers but I bet there is a lot of advocacy hoping on that people will not get from their friends, who will likely be the same age. On the other hand, having children doesn't guarantee even this will happen, especially if you are an unpleasant person to your children.

It came across to me that he spent his best procreating years avoiding serious relationships that could have led to children. Then is upset there's no one to jump in and save him from the consequences of his actions and previous decisions. Men eh.

If he's been so self focused for most of his life its unlikely he'd make a decent parent anyway.

Too many men think young women go for old men for their looks and personalities rather than their money. If you aren't loaded, your dating pool of fertile willing 20 somethings is going to be severely limited.

I don't think becoming a dad after 40 is that old. We were TTC for a fair few years before our first arrived when DH was 46. I am a fair bit younger. It isn't ideal but I don't think there needs to be an arbitrary cut off at 40.

The anger is disturbing. As if they blame others?
The entitlement too- I just assumed it would happen.

So no effort needed from him to be a good life partner that someone would want to have kids with then?

This one man. I don't feel sorry for him. But there would be many I do, I'm sure.

The sheer number of famous people who have deadbeat dads who sell their #sad face stories to the Daily Mail when their kid won't givethem money speak to them is astonishing, and should be a cautionary tale, but isn't.

I know someone who had a child on their own at 50. She has major health problems as well. She now has a partner who has adopted her child but he’s more than 10 years older.
shes now 60, he’s over 70 and they both still work. Child is in private school whilst they still struggle day to day financially because they want him to have the best.
she had a failed marriage and miscarriages. I think the choice to do it alone was far too late.

Well aren’t you a delight…

The focus on being alone may be more age related than their overall feelings. Harsh to judge them on this when we don’t know what else was in the interview and what was explored via the questions

Agree that it's selfish to expect your child to care for you in old age. Most people don't literally mean that though.

They want family around them, as most human beings do. For most, this means having your own children.

Others might have nieces and nephews or the children of their friends etc

Relationships and friendships do fall apart though.as you get older life gets in the way, especially if friends have their own families, then by the time you are elderly many of your peers die. My neighbour is a very lonely old lady. I have tried to befriend her but there's only so much I can do. She doesn't have children (I haven't asked why it's not my place) and her husband and it seems all of her friends have now passed. I don't think nurturing same age peer relationships is going to stop people being lonely in old age.

I have a male friend in his early 50s who is a bit like this. Was good looking as a younger man, bit of a tart, spent his 30s and 40s building up a very good career, lots of cash and property. There were several girlfriends over the years who would have been happy to marry him and have children, but he always had this ultra romantic ideal of the kind of woman he wanted and none of them quite fitted. Now he's maudlin and self pitying about the fact that he " always" wanted to be a dad...
Another male friend just never fell in love with anyone until he was 40, when he fell in love with a woman the same age. Kids never happened for them, but he is philosophical about it, and accepts that it's the way it is.
Often in life, you pays your money and you makes your choice. It's how you deal with the outcomes that is the real test of character.

I personally know some who just never met anyone until they were both too old to have children (unlike 1/2/3 millionaires who seem to have children no matter how old they get). They regret not having met each other when younger too but obviously delight in the years they have together now. Their paths just never crossed and not because of high flying careers just ordinary folk. There’s all manner of reasons for people to miss out on what to others comes often.

Not all rich men are successful romantically.

I once worked with a physically unattractive man in his forties who must have been a millionaire, as he owned more than ten properties. He briefly dated one of our colleagues, but she dumped him when she realised he was a total miser. He did once buy her a gift, but apparently it was from a pound shop. I never heard of him dating anyone else.

Well, quite. Sounds like he's been in a satisfying relationship with himself his whole life.

Cakesandbabes upthread is right, male fertility starts to fall from 40-45 on average. I've noticed that a lot of the guys who do have kids older have usually already had kids with a previous partner, rather than being late starters. A lot of people seem to think men have unlimited fertility generally, but then men are generally prone to 'optimism' when it comes to a lot of aspects about themselves! I recently had a debate with a guy who simply couldn't accept that fertility starts to fall when a man is in his 40's. He also couldn't accept that a lot of these older male celebrities having children with younger women are likely using IVF or other help. Sadly there seems to be a lot of 40+ guys out there that seem to believe they are Cary Grant or something.

Risky little game they're playing there!