Unspoken grief childless men

[Needanewnamebeingwatched]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/28/unspoken-grief-childless-men

What are you thoughts on this report from a man who never had children and regrets it bitterly

Absolutely - it's a different topic I know but as it's been referenced - my sister is adopted and she is absolutely no different to being a biological sibling in my eyes. Nonetheless, everyone thinks differently and I think that it's hard to understand that it's absolutely possible to develop a familial bone to someone, even if they are not biologically related unless you have had that experience.

But that's your summary of what actually happened.
Not every person actively plans / can plan for having kids from age 25 and live everyday trying to meet that objective.

Bond sorry, not bone.

The man I know who is the most vocal about it spent his teens, twenties, thirties and forties being 'a free spirit'. He didn't want the boredom of one woman to commit to or the expectation to have a job - why would he when he was quite good looking, tall, tanned from living abroad and could easily find women happy to hook up with him for a night or two at a festival or beach party? There was always someone better out there in his mind.

It was only once he hit fifty that he started thinking about it and then found out a middleaged bloke with white man dreads, no career, no home and the attitudes of twenty years previous wasn't actually that appealing to 24-34 year old women. He then 'lowered his expectations' and looked for 36-38 year olds on the assumption that they'd have their own jobs, cars, careers and houses plus a loudly ticking biological clock. But they weren't that impressed with him, either.

He's very angry that he doesn't have a son. Angry with the women for not supporting his intended career path of cocklodger+child, mostly. So he's now coming out with his underlying misogyny about how wicked and untrustworthy women are because they won't give him his entitlement to a womb.

Many of these men have been adamant that they didn't want children at all with women their own age, that the next woman along was more likely to be The One, that they could always 'do better' than the woman right in front of them, that they would always be attractive to young, healthy, fit women and there was all the time in the world.

He's a complete melt

Most over 80s live alone not in a cosy family setting.

my husbands nan lived alone till her 90s but she had 2 children & 7 grand children who visited regularly. When she had a stroke she was visited at the hospital every day & when she was ill, it was DH who rang the doctor because she was being stubborn

She lived alone but she wasn’t alone

The article does explain it - in a nutshell, he left it too late and then couldn't find anyone who wanted and was able to have a child with him, where the relationship was 'strong enough'.

"Reaching adulthood, there was a lot he wanted to experience. “Having children was a very low priority. I was complacent: I just assumed it would happen,” he said.
It was not until he was in his early 40s that Nurden started to get broody. But by that point, he discovered, women of a similar age had already had children, if they were able or wanted to.
“I went into this 15-year period of not going into relationships or ending relationships quickly because I knew that person wasn’t going to want or be able to have a child with me – or that the relationship wasn’t going to be strong enough to last if we did have a child,” said Nurden."

Same reaction here.

🤷🏼‍♀️

Agree with this, it's important to talk and raise awareness of this. The consequences of waiting too long are well known to women - I'm sure if women are not thinking about it in their 20s, they are in their 30s. I was very surprised at the statistic than 25% of men over 42 didn't have any kids and maybe men need to be made a little more aware of this too.

If that accurately reflects the tone of the book, it sounds like an unpleasant, accusatory and resentful read.

I feel bad for anyone who leaves it too late then finds the ship has sailed. it’s good to see a man talking about his feelings on this.

😆😆😆😆 soo relatable

Interesting article. Thank you very much @Needanewnamebeingwatched . There's quite a lot of women who regret not having children, but nobody ever thinks about the men who regret not having them. It is obviously quite a lot.

There's a myth (often peddled by the childfree) that only women want children - and men just have them because women want them. Surely that myth has got to be put to bed now. It's absolute rubbish. In every couple I know, the man wanted children as much as the woman. Yes, of course, the woman ends up looking after them more. That's just life, isn't it? But of course, men want children as well.

This article is similar to how people don't think of the man/the father of the child when a woman miscarries their baby or if a child dies. It is horrific for the mother, of course. But the father is always left behind, and people don't seem to care about him/think about him... It's so mean and cruel to say, 'who cares about the men?' What a nasty comment to make @Newnamehiwhodis

@doroda

I'd feel sorry for a man who was childless due to infertility or loss.

But that's not what the article is really about...it's about men who have no interest in commitment until it's too late. Boo hoo.

What a nasty thing to say. Would you say this about women who 'left it too late' or put their career first etc?

Nope! Thought not! You'd be roasted on here if you said that! You wouldn't dare!

One word that sticks out for me is ‘status’ and obviously he feels inadequate next to other men with children. He wants the title of being a dad\grandad.

I don’t think having children is an antidote to loneliness. I think a lot of child rearing is lonely and obviously children grow up and create their own lives, especially if they move away.

I also think for this man, and a lot of men, the fantasy of being parent doesn’t relate to the reality. Like lots of men he could have quite quickly realised it wasn’t for him and pissed off. Millions have.

It seems to be a series of ramblings. I imagine he found it therapeutic to write, but I wonder how keen a publisher would be to take on the unstructured musings of a childless woman?

Yeah @borntobequiet the tone is oddly snide. Big surprise: parents are fiercely protective of children and feel a vicarious pride in their achievements after decades of nurturing them from little humans. Maybe Ann is a bit of a bore - who knows - but it's hardly revelatory stuff. It's like being shocked that a cow is more likely to attack you if she comes near her calf. That cow is such a thoughtless pro-natalist!

I think that many men in this situation are Peter Pans. They might want children but at the age when men who really want children decide to grow up and settle down and become “marriageable” they aren’t prepared to do the work to become emotionally available men who seek proper lifelong relationships with women.

So I am less sorry for them than women who might have wanted children but never met the right man. Because many men don’t make themselves properly marriageable.

Yes, but men need to take responsibility for raising awareness about it, talking about it etc. Absolutely patriarchy damages men as well as women, but those who still have disproportionate amounts of power in society need to take the lead in remedying ills that they primarily suffer from (male suicide rates) as well as those they primarily cause (sexual violence).

Those NHS prostate cancer ads aimed at women, telling them to get their husbands to the GP, used to drive me mildly mad. You don’t see ads aimed at men telling them to ensure their wives do a regular breast check or get annual smears. Not only is women’s health (understandably) viewed as women’s problem, male health is also viewed as women’s problem.

I've been a member in a FB group for people without children and there are a few men there - it's very sad for them, just as it is for women who are childless not by choice.

Edited to add: Robin Hadley is in that group, he's a great voice for male childlessness.

I think it goes a bit beyond just the influence of famous men. There is this whole, constant myth that men age more attractively than women. Put that together with the biological fact that men have a longer period of fertility than women and many men end up with a completely false idea of the options they have as they approach or are in middle-age. First, most men do not age well. I would say that the absolute outliers, men with a certain type of beauty age in a way that makes them more handsome when they are older. George Clooney, for example, looked kind of ordinary as a young man but striking in his 40s and 50s. Men like him will likely have little trouble attracting a younger wife if they wait until middle age to start a family. But they are incredibly rare. More common, but far from the norm, are men who are both quite handsome and stay in good athletic shape as they age. They also stand a very good chance at attracting a younger wife, especially if they still have their hair. Men who aren't so attractive but who are very wealthy can attract a younger wife, especially if they are famous.

And that's it. A small subsection of older men. If you are a somewhat balding, somewhat ruddy faced, some-what pot-bellied, some-what unfit, ordinary incomed man, your dating pool does not usually include women 15 years your junior. The myth that it does is built on misogyny and making women feel like shit. But make no mistake. The majority of the men who believe it enough to live their lives by it, are the ones who will suffer the brunt of the disappointment when they come to realise it really was a myth.

One word that sticks out for me is ‘status’ and obviously he feels inadequate next to other men with children. He wants the title of being a dad\grandad.

Parenthood doea give you aome "status or worth" in society though.
If I die my headline will read:
Woman killed in car crash on M25
If woman with children die:
Tragic death of mum of 2 on M25
^Same for ^man

It's infuriating for 2 reasons.
1-it shows the "important status" society gives
2-in some way it perpetuates the idea of once you become parent you are not much more (mainly for women)
Double edged sword that.

I agree with that.

Women have it drummed into them from about the age of 10 that they risk being 'too picky' and 'leaving it too late'. Whereas men are often encouraged to think that attractive young women will be happy to have children with them when they're well into their 40s or 50s. That might be true if you're rich, famous or have something else going for you, but it isn't true for the average man.

Biologically, men may have no cut off point in their fertility, although of course the younger the better in that sense too. In practice, however, men too can 'leave it too late' because there comes a point where fertile young women just won't be interested in them.

I think all the judgement / victim blaming on this thread is unjustified. Many people, male or female, find themselves in situations that later cause them regret. Not everyone plans out their life judiciously and makes the right choices. People also change over time - not wanting a child as a younger adult, or prioritising your career, isn't evil or wrong-headed. Also the guy the article is about- who has written a book - isn't the one who married late to a woman who was too old to have a child. He did have relationships but they were not right so he moved on. He also doesn't say he wanted a child to care for him in old age either, but that he is alone as he doesn't have a family and can never be a grandfather.

There are many women who post on here about unsatisfactory or broken relationships in their mid 30s where they realise time is running out to have a baby in a couple. They didn't plan for that to happen either. They still have the choice to go it alone, but not everyone wants to do that. Do we berate them for their pathetic need to focus on other things in their lives first?

My brother has no kids. He doesn't regret it but he values his family and his nieces and nephews. He still mentions that there may be no one to look out for him when he is older, realising that nieces and nephews may not step up. Personally I like the idea my kids hopefully would help me out in old age if I became ill or unable to cope. Not "look after me", just there to support with advice or getting care or a home sorted out. Surely most people hope for this.

Some posters are clearly anti all men, but it is awful to stereotype an entire gender.

Zero sympathy. A friend of my DH is in his 50s and has no kids. He has said the same sorts of things ‘I assumed it would happen.’ He is good looking and very successful and has had several long-term relationships. But he has never taken the next step — asked a woman to marry him etc. I suspect he never brought up kids ir solidifying these relationships further too. f you cannot commit to a relationship then why would a woman want to have your kid? Oh yes there are plenty of ‘accidents’ but I think most women want a commitment before having a kid.

I have empathy for anyone who feels they have missed out on something.

But he is at the bottom of my empathy pile.
I do wonder what really happened in the 15y from when he realised he wanted kids and still "could not find the one" to make it happen.
Pretty sure his exes from the time must have interesting feedback...

I feel more sad for all the nice, sweet, shy guys who don t manage to make it in the modern dating world.

I feel a lot more sad for every woman who has had parenthood imposed on her or has had difficulty or found it impossible to conceive when she wanted to.