Unspoken grief childless men

[Needanewnamebeingwatched]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/28/unspoken-grief-childless-men

What are you thoughts on this report from a man who never had children and regrets it bitterly

I feel some sympathy for anyone who did not have kids and wanted them. At the same time his reasons of high profile men breed complacency seems strange. If you dont try what do you expect? Should I have assumed I dont have to work hard to get a good job because of famous people?

I have more sympathy for men like a friend who s lovely and always wanted kids and tried but is shy and just never found the right woman. Or people who are infertile and or have miscarriages (both the men and women affected).

I think it's good they talk about the influence from famous men and the fact that it givea impression you can do it any time. It's not just the female fertility which declines, it's just that in man it's few years later. Giving an impressions 75year olds can have babies like nothing is as wrong as claiming that about 50 year old women. Then there is the toxic masculinity in a mix. The more they talk about it, the more the issues go away and wanting to be a father and be sensitive etc will stop being laughable. That will include qanting to be SAHD.

It's the same way like we get some negative influences by famous women and toxic femininity.

The article says he wasn’t interested in starting a family until he was in his forties, then found most women of his age already had children, then ended various relationships.

While I do empathise with any person who want’s children but doesn’t have them, I think this person let that boat sail and now regrets his decisions.

True, though there are instances of 50+ and even 60+ women having babies via egg donor.

I agree.

I’m sure many men and women regret their decisions and I think it’s very common when you get older to look back and wonder if you should have done things differently.

I’ve lost count of the amount of threads started by women saying they wished they had children, or wished they had them at a younger/older age, that they wish they didn’t get married so early or wish they settled down earlier or wish they’d separated years ago etc etc

Of course it’s all their own choices that they need to accept but I will still feel sympathy for them.

Of course this is MN so he won’t get much sympathy from the man haters on here.

The man in the article did not inspire sympathy for me, for all the reasons pp have mentioned.

However, I do have a few male friends that I think this might happen for and I do feel sorry for them. Two in particular I have in mind, a couple of my dh's best mates. They're only in their mid 30s atm, just ordinary nice blokes who I reckon would treat their wives well and be good dads, but they can't seem to find a LTR (or even casual gf). They're disillusioned with online dating so that's out. They mostly do man-heavy hobbies on the weekend like 5-a-side football etc so don't meet new women easily. Primarily wfh. Above average income, non smokers, no drugs. One is self conscious about his weight (he's slightly overweight but so are most people aren't they?). The other is a bit shy. Neither of them would be interested in dating a much younger woman.

So that means they've got, say, 5y left to find a woman of our own age to settle down with. They've told me they feel hopeless about it. I don't have any answers and I'm a bit bemused why they haven't found gfs yet (I'm as man-hating as they come but these two are truly quite nice). I bet London is full of men in this situation.

I didn’t meet the right person to have kids with. So at 38 I settled. I had kids with someone who was acceptable but not ideal. I didn’t expect the relationship to last for the rest of my life, it was always in my mind that we would probably separate eventually. I figured that kids with someone you don’t love is better than no kids at all. I wanted kids and a loving partner, and one out of two is better than none out of two.

The guy in the article obviously chose not to make that compromise. He chose to keep looking for an ideal partner thus missing his chance to have kids. No judgement, it’s a personal decision, but he made his choice.

To be fair sometimes women will say that, or think that too. I am childless not through choice and it is definitely something I have come across. I don’t have that particular thought myself, I am of the opinion that there is no obligation for a child to do that anyway. I am generally at peace with my situation now, but I still wonder if I might be lonely in old age though.

My husband is also childless not through choice. He pretends now he wasn’t bothered about children, but I know he would have liked. I honestly don’t think there is much acknowledgment of this sadness for childless men and as can be seen in this thread already, there is sometimes “no sympathy whatsoever” for reasons I cannot fathom.

I figured that kids with someone you don’t love is better than no kids at all.

Is it for the kids though?

Or for the husband? If I found out my husband had basically "settled" for me so I could bear him children I'd feel totally used.

I haven’t met many women in their 20s who would be interested in marrying a man in their 40s+. Everyone I know married to someone significantly older were often older/childless themselves.

I think men are mis -sold this idea that they are fertile forever so they have plenty of time. It’s amazing the number of my friends where the DH was fairly apathetic and had to be really pushed to have DC, who they are happy with. It’s often women pushing the issue, men aren’t told to worry about a fertility clock ticking away.

They obviously see someone like George Clooney as a long time single man, changing his mind in middle age and having children (see also Hugh Grant, must be others). Forgetting they are millionaire movie stars and their dating pool is slightly different.

The bar for relationship material men is very low and there are many women who will lower that bar further if they really want children. Given that, it is hard to believe that pretty much ANY man did not have the opportunity to have children in their twenties, thirties and even early forties. The same is not true for women, who are looking for a man who wants to have children as that pool tends to be a lot smaller.

That in my opinion is why it is hard to feel sorry for childless blokes.

It’s not about having someone to care for me, but having seen how much care my Nan needed when she was older, I understand his worries and it does occur to me that I won’t have people who know and love me caring for me in old age, but strangers.
Caring for someone is a life sentence that I wouldn’t allow my kids to shoulder. It’s a huge burden when you’re doing it unpaid on top of a full time job. I want them to go off and enjoy their lives, not waste their time caring for me. I can pay people to do that, people who want to do it as their job. It always surprises me when people talk about their kids caring for them - is that really what you want their lives to be? A unpaid servant?

Lots of kids have divorced parents. Their lives are absolutely fine. The alternative for them is not existing at all, because Mum couldn’t find a loving relationship during her fertile years.

So you wouldn't feel sorry for a woman who really wanted children but left it too late? Sad that empathy isn't something that comes naturally to you

the whole “use a sperm donor” thing for women is a bit of a dud. I looked into it. But when I did the maths I worked out that I just couldn’t afford to have a child on my own. As a lower level civil servant I couldn’t afford the childcare, and I didn’t have any family alive that could help. I just didn’t see a way forward for me.

I'm not sure I understand that argument. They wouldn't care if they didn't exist, because... they wouldn't exist.

Personally I think people are putting having kids on the backburner, ‘we’ve got time’ etc and then being around 35-45 realising you want them. Probably is part to do with it

We know a man who is 42 and his partner is 28, I’m not sure if they will have kids or not but I also think people need to think about the morals of having a first child after 40, whether you are male or female. Surely sperm quality isn’t optimum forever

I actually think this is the approach people should take if kids are important.

There are countless threads on MN of women being told to leave their husbands who they love if they are being denied a second/third child. If kids is an absolute essential for you - have them (fertility allowing). I’m childfree by choice and met my DH at 40. Sure, we could have tried IVF but over 40 it’s basically a modern scam (vanishingly low percentages) and I didn’t want kids and he already had 2. DH and his ex both agree they had children because of the age they were and they would not have been together were it not for both wanting kids.

Men are being fooled into thinking they have more time than women, but they don’t. Their partners age out of fertility and the cliché of the younger model upgrade isn’t straightforward.

My DH has a not-much-of-a-catch mate who sees himself as the George Clooney of Milton Keynes and desperately wants kids at 47 but “not yet”. When DH pointed out he’d need to be having them with someone a lot younger he replied “yesss maaate” like it would be easy. Idiot. And, I fear, not unusual.

But overall, as PPs say, I feel sad for people that really want kids and circumstances just prevent it.

I think it's exactly the opposite actually. Women are choosy, men far less so.

Having worked in multiple (even high end) care homes I'd sooner die than put my parents in one.

Yeah millions of households are single parent ones. 40% if that kids live in poverty...

I feel sorry for him just like a woman who’s in the same boat.

And let’s be honest here, there is an increasing number of women who don’t have children because, like men, they prioritise career, finances, a life and then suddenly realise it’s too late. And I have huge sympathy for them as well. Anyone who has found themselves in their 40’s and beyond and the realisation of “wow it isn’t going to happen”. That’s sad.

He freely admits he was 'complacent' in his twenties and thirties.

I agree, it shouldn't have been impossible for him to find someone in his early 40s - he's by no means completely unattractive or unsuccessful. As I said earlier in the thread, I suspect the issue was that he set his bar too high in terms of the type of woman he wanted. That's his prerogative but men can't have it both ways; as you say, it's common for women to compromise.

Yes it’s a stupid argument that is often thrown at childfree by choice people - "if your parents had thought like you, you wouldn't be here ".