Unspoken grief childless men

[Needanewnamebeingwatched]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/28/unspoken-grief-childless-men

What are you thoughts on this report from a man who never had children and regrets it bitterly

You sound delightful

I guess that as you get on in life you reflect on the opportunities you've had, or missed for whatever reason. In life you don't get everything and there's no way of knowing what life would have been like if different paths were taken. You've more chance of having children if you start young but then you'll find that you give up other things. This guy didn't think about children until he was in his 40s so would have needed someone probably 10 years younger. Narrows the field. Maybe better to count the good in life that you have rather than focus on what you may or may not have missed.

Really? Some people choose not to have children and it is not sad,

It is desperately sad for both men and women who regret not having children or can't for whatever reason

If children were a low priority for him before then why is he surprised and sad he doesn't have them now?
Sounds to me like he's just scared of aging and loneliness. There are other ways to combat that apart from relying unfairly on your kids to look after you.
Something a friend to me said struck a chord when I was saying to him that I've struggled long and hard with the debate whether to have kids myself - "if you really wanted them you'd have had them by now". He's right, I would have prioritised seeking men who wanted a family and put my career/lifestyle second place if I was really driven to have them.

Hmm, it just smacks of some older men thinking they can have the pick of the fertile pool of women any time they want. Well no mate you can’t.

But nobody would relish being alone in old age, with your friends, siblings and acquaintances one by one dropping off. And fewer people to grieve with.

I can’t think that “not being lonely” is any worse a reason to have kids than “well thats just what everyone did” or “I got carried away and your mother wouldn’t have an abortion”

A lot of women will not feel like sympathising because from being on dating apps it’s obvious men choose to leave it quite late, then look for a younger fertile woman to have kids with.

When I was dating in my late 30’s I had to rule out tons and tons of men from 35-55 because they all had ‘want kids’ on their profile and I can’t have more children. This was very different to when I was dating in my 20’s and I had a lot more options myself, men have options of fertility for a far longer period of time.

i have sympathy for infertility or health problems, this article might help men who are afraid to commit that they could address this before they regret it but ultimately they could still have kids, even in their 60’s if they wanted to?

It’s not like females who lose fertility as they age so it’s not quite the same situation

But that is what many people keep telling to childfree people. Who will be there for us? Ww are supposed to worry about that apparently so not surprised he mentions that

This bit rings false:

"It was not until he was in his early 40s that Nurden started to get broody. But by that point, he discovered, women of a similar age had already had children, if they were able or wanted to."

He 'discovered'? How had he got to his forties without knowing that female fertility is in sharp decline by that point? I'm inclined to think that what he 'discovered' was that he was unable to attract a younger woman of the calibre to which he believed he was entitled.

@tokenname but that’s not always the case. My boss said that to me once and I went in the loo and had a good cry. I really wanted marriage and children. Really, really wanted it. And without getting to the desperate needy stage, I really worked hard at it. But from 21 to 35 I was caring for terminally ill parents who died far before their time, and after that there wasn’t really anyone left, and believe me, I kept an open mind.

It’s wrong to blame anyone for this and say that it’s their fault, they didn’t want it enough, they could have done more etc. Childless by circumstance is what I am, and that term is applicable to men just as much as women. We already feel pretty shit about it - we don’t need others pointing it out too.

I know a lady who would have loved dc but following her divorce from her cheating husband she just never found someone and is now in her 50s. She always assumed it would happen but time flew by. I feel the same for a man in the same position.

i guess Hollywood tells men they can date a younger woman and have dc in their 40s but do women want to date much older men who aren’t Leonardo dicaprio? And having babies in your 40s is exhausting. I know many people do but I can’t imagine it (I’m 41 and my youngest are 12, I can’t imagine having the energy for babies but appreciate this is only my perspective).

Very sad. I would have been devastated not to have had children and I think DH would have felt the same.

The man who is pictured never actually said those things though, there are quotes from three men in the article. The first man does mention being alone, the researcher for the book talks about how he and his wife were too old when they met and the final bit about being looked after is from someone else.

So it’s different perspectives and to me seems no different from the variation of worries and sadness you often hear women talking about. I don’t think anyone should have kids with the expectation they will be cared for in their old age or not be alone, but lots of people do.

I think it is a good article and talks about a not often discussed topic. I think lots of people leave things late - so many posts here for example of women worrying they have left it too late. The problem is different for men (or can be it seems) because of the assumption a man can become a father at any age really - but as these guys are saying it is not as easy as that for many men.

I think this is good, why shouldn’t men talk about their expectations, hopes and regrets about being a father?? Male entitlement to children is a very negative way to look at it! Lots of people just assume they will have kids whatever the gender. I think it’s good these men are discussing how this has impacted them, maybe some other men will find solidarity in it or it might make some reflect about not leaving it until we’ll into their forties or beyond?

I feel sad for anyone who wants children but can’t have them, but this particular example doesn’t make me hugely sympathetic. He deliberately left having kids late, assuming he had plenty of time, which means he assumed he’d find a younger girlfriend when he was in his 40s. That’s a big assumption to make.

It’s not a secret that women’s fertility declines with age. The phrase “biological clock” is well known. Women are aware there is a time limit, so men need to start factoring that in to their plans as well.

Haven’t read the article, I can understand the regret though.

My husband didn’t think he’d ever have children, we met in our mid 30s and have managed to have 2 children.

He cried at our son’s first nativity, he never thought he’d get to experience that. He’s a wonderful father.

He would have massively regretted never having children.

It's something I reflect on a lot. I'm in my late 50s, childless not through choice, divorced (an extra sting in that my husband refused to countenance both IVF and adoption, left me for a much younger woman and promptly had a baby with her). I feel great pain and regret that I've missed bringing a life into the world and all that that entails., and I could guess that some men feel like that too. And yes, as a PP said, the prospect of being old and infirm and having no-one willing to advocate for me makes me afraid. I would not want my child to be my carer, but I'd want them to be the one who had my back. Sorry if I've phrased any of that clumsily.

I think that as a PP said, it’s “advocating” not “caring” that is the issue. I never provided care for my elderly, unwell dad but I did a lot of organising for him - stuff he had always happily done but eventually was unable to do. I sorted out his house insurance for example, and arranged opticians appointments and annual boiler services. The sort of thing that social services carers don’t do, in other words.

It’s reassuring to think that someone might take that mental burden on for you when you’re very frail I guess (although naturally it’s not a given).

Well they can’t have it all. Men can’t play the field their whole lives but still expect the happy family at the end of it.

Men are probably more likely to do this than women who are open to settling down earlier.

I had a colleague who spent his 20s and 30s shagging around, avoiding commitment and prioritising a fairly selfish lifestyle focussed on indulging his every want.

He hit 40 and suddenly realised he wanted a wife & children, fast and was asking us all for blind date suggestions etc. He was then wildly unrealistic about what sort of woman would be available and interested in him - he was expecting to pick up a very attractive woman 10 years younger. He couldn't get his head around the fact that these woman were marrying the men their own age who prioritised relationships & family.

He's now 46, hasn't ever met anyone and is still childless. He isn't a very happy person.

I’m empathetic for anyone, man or woman, who wanted kids but doesn’t have them due to infertility or life circumstances.

We don’t know all of these men’s full stories, but unfortunately if they kept putting it off they weren’t ready until it was too late - that is their gamble that didn’t pay off. But that is life i suppose.

I feel sad for him as I would anyone who had wanted children but couldn't.

I thought it was an interesting article and made me think. Men are fed a damaging line that they can conceive forever and younger women will be interested in older men. In reality there is a window of opportunity.

There was a good thread on Reddit recently which asked men 'what are the cons of not having kids'.

The majority of responses were along the lines of 'all your friends will drift away into babyland' and 'you will feel intense social pressure to have kids yourself, and be made to feel weird for not having them'.

It made me feel sad that so many posters (in their 20s/30s most of them, seemingly) were in thrall to what society expected of them, rather than what they genuinely wanted out of life as individuals. Some mentioned how they get to do activities they enjoyed as a child (Lego, theme parks, sports etc) but again why can't they feel comfortable doing these as adults without kids to hide behind?

Very few, maybe one, actually talked about missing out on the somewhat indescribable joy/fulfilment kids bring. But you can't miss what you don't have - these men, I suspect, are comparing with the fathers around them and despairing.

Sad that he's not got what he wanted.

I'm not so sad that he doesn't have a carer in his old age. And with that thinking, he'd likely have ended up alone anyway, because the children wouldn't want to be around him much!

But my sympathy goes to the women left looking after children their men disposed of, and the children, of whom I was one, who were disposed of while their fathers went and had a fun life.

I know of some older men who did manage to marry and have children late - late meaning after their reproductive years would have been over were they women. They were millionaires. One had a family castle in Europe. Wives were in their twenties who were beautiful and in equal parts not interested in a career and happy to bend to his will.

Men of regular means seem to not understand the thing that women of average looks learn early on: you don't have the benefits that can accrue to those who are above-average. That's not unfair or even the end of the world. And also it's not because the opposite sex are horrible. It's just how things are, so accept the reality and get on with it.

I met my DH when I was 28 and he was 39. He had certainly not been “playing the field”, or shagging around, he’d had a couple of serious relationships that hadn’t worked out. We wanted children but it didn’t happen. But we have been very happily married for 33 years and neither of us would swap that for anything.

or perhaps that they won’t have grandkids to come and visit them in their old age?