Police shoot pregnant woman dead (USA)

[SuddenlyOld]

Ok America, since when did it become normal for police officers to point guns at pregnant women accused of shoplifting?
She didn't have a weapon or get violent. Turns out she hadn't stolen anything either.
If I was black in America I'd be scared to go out 😪😪😪
This is probably the worst thing I've seen ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66690408

Absolutely

We know that in situations when we are frightened for our lives we will behave differently - fight, flight, freeze etc

*Can you imagine being this young women, pregnant with one officer with a hand in your vehicle and the other pointing a gun AT YOUR HEAD?
*
Can some poster's not even begin to understand that pure fear and adrenaline make you sometimes do daft things, slow down your processing time and therefore your reactions? Do you really all think you'd be cool as a cucumber smoothly obeying the men in front of you who are armed?

I've never had a gun pointed at me so I'll cut a much younger than me, unaccompanied woman heavily pregnant some slack.

It was on those officers to risk aseas and de-escalate the situation. On them. This is their job

And had she got out of the car the first time she was told do do so?

👏

And had she got out of the car the first time she was told do do so?

Hopefully she wouldn't be dead. And?

Exactly; she was told about 14-15 times to get out of the car. Had she got out the first time , did whatever else she was asked to do the end result might have been her arrest . Just that.The police in the US aren't actually given much training in de-escalation apparently, so until that happens just do as they say.

Do those drills involve resisting arrest and driving cars at the police?

Regina I'm guessing no but maybe you could ask the poster? But I'm sure you won't as you know how patronising and offensive that would sound in context what that mother has shared

Exactly; she was told about 14-15 times to get out of the car. Had she got out the first time , did whatever else she was asked to do the end result might have been her arrest . Just that.The police in the US aren't actually given much training in de-escalation apparently, so until that happens just do as they say.

Totally agree. But

^2 things can be simultaneously true.

The victim made a series of wrong choices; and

She was unlawfully and unjustifiably killed.^

@TaiDee Said this . It's a hard agree from me.

Have you ever had a loaded weapon pointed at you?

The first time she was asked there was no loaded weapon pointing at her.

The first time she was asked there was no loaded weapon pointing at her.

She was shot within 30 seconds. Please.

She was not asked, she was screamed at from an officer running towards her as if she had murdered someone herself. It was excessive and set the tone for the whole exchange.

The first time she was asked there was no loaded weapon pointing at her.

sweet Jesus

She's an uncooperative 20 year old. Legions of people don't do what the police tell them to do. 1st, 2nd, or 20th time.

Honestly crack on. Cba @loislovesstewie

Justifiable force or whatever you think.

Totally proportionate.

What else could she expect?

🤦‍♀️

I think if you live in a society like the US then you know what the end result is likely to be. So , no matter what else you think in terms of how the officer spoke etc, just get out of the bloody car!

I hope my nieces and nephew who live in the US would "know what the end result is likely to be "

They are the same sort of age. Very young adults.
I hope they would get out of the car.

And if they didn't? ???

From MN = move along, what did they expect?

Well, we aren't going to solve the many issues there are with the police, the USA, the police in the US, firearms in the general population, street violence or anything else are we?
I don't live in the US, I won't visit the US because I don't think it would be to my liking. Especially the gun culture.

@ReginaRegina your critical thinking has led you to believe it's social media and nothing else. Look at the way the press writes about Meghan Markle racism still exists. It's in the papers and the services that people use. You come to that conclusion because it will never affect you. She should never have died the officers life was not under threat it was an abuse of power.

This is disingenuous. She drove at and hit the police officer whilst attempting to flee. She wasn't just sitting the car minding her own business. She was sat in an illegal car(no plates), refusing to cooperate with police then tried to flee through them. Nothing happened until she drove at them, that was a pretty big escalation of the situation. I can see why fear kicked in. Was it the right response no, but the police aren't robots and when you have someone who displays no respect for police, is in an illegal car and starts driving at you, you will panic. You are all about her fear but you completely dismiss the fear the police might have felt. You refer to her as 'a young girl' as if that means she didn't have the power to hurt anyone but 'young girls' can and do kill people with cars too. It's a shitty situation created out of a society saturated with violence.

My main gripe is with the pot stirring that always seems to go on with such cases. It's clear from the examples being posted that people will usually try and find a racial element even when there clearly isn't one

@ReginaRegina

I suppose my main gripe is the equal pot stirring - posters who will try to underplay, justify and palm off what as happened as run of the mill and " to be expected".

From their equal positions of safety.

She wasn't in an illegal car she was accused of shop lifting. She parked in a parking space and the car rolled forward not driving at him and then he shot her. Those are the facts. Mark Stone from Sky News posted this:

Mark StoneUS correspondent
@Stone_SkyNews
It is telling that this tragic story is not the top news of the day here in America.
Maybe it reflects an awful frequency. So often in the United States, citizens die in encounters with the police.
And so often the victims are black.
You need to scroll down a little on the US news websites to find the details of what happened to 21-year-old Ta’Kiya Young.
It was last Thursday when two officers, who had been helping someone locked out of their car, turned their attention to Ms Young.
She had just been accused of shoplifting, and one of the officers was demanding she get out of her car.
The encounter escalated from that demand to a shot fired and a dead pregnant woman in just 30 seconds.
She was not armed and there was no indication that she might be. Police guidelines stipulate that firing at a moving vehicle is "rarely effective".
As America once again questions what constitutes 'reasonable force', a central question in this case is why the officer didn't just step out of the way as the car slowly accelerated.
Why did he feel a shot to the chest was necessary? Why not let Ms Young get away and trace her later?
Did he intend to fire the weapon? Was it discharged by accident as the vehicle nudged him? Why did he even draw it?
It’s notable that the other officer, his partner, who was at the scene before him had chosen not to draw his weapon.
All these questions will form the core of the investigation that is now underway.
According to Statistica, 555 civilians were shot dead in the first 7 months of 2023. Of them, 132 were confirmed as white, 75 confirmed as black, 24 Hispanic, 13 classed as 'other' and 311 of as-yet unconfirmed ethnicity.
The rate of fatal shootings broken down by ethnicity and proportional to the population shows that the black community is disproportionately impacted.
Statistica data shows that the rate of fatal police shootings among the African American community between 2015 and July 2023 stood at 5.8 per million of the population per year.
For white Americans the rate was 2.3 fatal police shootings per million of the population.

Me too.

These people are neighbours, colleagues, managers, hirers and firers, children's teachers, police, fire and rescue officers, NHS workers - it’s horrifyingly scary to think how they treat people, black and white, in what is supposed to be a progressive society. How on earth do we, privileged or marginalised, reach these people.

Such defence of and clear messaging that some lives are more valuable than others. How in the world are we still having the same conversations about race, bias etc. Despite endless training, published reports and hearing lived experiences. Nothing has moved on at all, seemingly. Nothing.

This is disingenuous. She drove at and hit the police officer whilst attempting to flee. She wasn't just sitting the car minding her own business. She was sat in an illegal car(no plates), refusing to cooperate with police then tried to flee through them.

Does anyone know this was an 'illegal' car? I think the plates are blacked over for the footage. The police weren't assessing the car. They shot her within 30 seconds.

Nothing happened until she drove at them, that was a pretty big escalation of the situation.

There is NOT consensus that she "tried to drive through them". That is under debate currently.

I can see why fear kicked in. Was it the right response no, but the police aren't robots and when you have someone who displays no respect for police, is in an illegal car and starts driving at you, you will panic. You are all about her fear but you completely dismiss the fear the police might have felt.

Nope, but they are police. With procedures. This is their line of work. I hold them as protectors of law and order to a higher level of capability in a stressful situation.

You refer to her as 'a young girl' as if that means she didn't have the power to hurt anyone but 'young girls' can and do kill people with cars too. It's a shitty situation created out of a society saturated with violence.

And it could be argued that young people are more reckless, uninformed and confrontational in terms of obeying a " get out of the car" order.

It's a shitty situation created out of a society saturated with violence.

Absolutely.

The car wasn't illegal it's to fit their picture of the woman being a criminal rather than focusing on the facts.

That poor young woman had no chance once she was accused of shoplifting. She must have been terrified.

The car has literally got nothing to do with it.

That has been perpetuated by stereotyping.

A poster flagging how " they would question " how she was driving an expensive car blah blah blah as she looked " low income " and had her first child at 15 blah blah.

The plates are blacked for footage! .

So evident that posters are happy to jump on that stereotype.