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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Reborn dolls in the pram bay

680 replies

gezelligheid · 31/08/2023 07:34

A couple of times now I've been unable to get on the bus with my baby in a pram because there are two local women who take their reborn dolls out in prams and take up the pram bays. I know they are reborn dolls as I've seen the dolls in their pram.

I understand people have reborn dolls for many different reasons but to take up a space meaning a real baby can't get on the bus surely isn't fair?

I've complained to the bus service and they've said they cannot monitor whether babies are real or not so if they get on the bus first I should ask them to put their pram down upon boarding.

I'm worried this will cause an altercation on the bus so I'm wondering AIBU to say something on the bus even though it may be embarrassing for the women?

OP posts:
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10
CambridgeBuns · 31/08/2023 10:53

Insommmmnia · 31/08/2023 10:51

I forgot when it because a rule that mothers couldn't be disabled

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Being a mother doesn’t make you disabled. A disabled person can be a parent.

Original poster
gezelligheid · 31/08/2023 10:53

CaroleSinger · 31/08/2023 10:51

You do realise the bay is for wheelchairs, not prams? None of you have precedence.

Edited

There is a pram bay as well as a wheelchair bay on Arriva buses, which is who run all the bus routes in my area

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 31/08/2023 10:54

Jamtartforme · 31/08/2023 10:18

I think that if somebody is in possession of a reborn doll, it's an obvious indicator that they do have an invisible disability and would therefore have an entitlement to use the wheelchair space over and above somebody with a kid in a buggy, inconvenient though that is.

  1. what kind of invisible disability does it indicate?
  2. why does this supposed invisible disability ‘entitle’ them to use a pram space more than a woman with an actual baby?
  1. I think sufficient posters have mentioned dementia, trauma from infant loss and learning disabilities already.
  2. It's a disability.
  3. The spaces weren't campaigned for, developed, funded and installed for the benefit of people with infants.
  4. Sometimes it's quite nice to not be a dick to those with such disabilities because it makes you feel big and clever to pick on vulnerable people.
Jamtartforme · 31/08/2023 10:54

Sirzy · 31/08/2023 10:50

But these women have pushchairs so surely can use it too?

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Honestly I just can’t. You know the difference very well but will now perform some amazing mental gymnastics to make out there isn’t one, because you’ve bought into the #bekind nonsense which in its quest to be PC and tolerant is now putting dolls ahead of human babies.

picklepot22 · 31/08/2023 10:55

Obviously it's not ok. The same as it's not ok for them to buy baby formula that is in short supply for their dolls. A doll shouldn't take precedent over a real baby that's just common sense.

However I do think these threads always go the same way - people bashing them without really understanding what might lead someone to having one of these dolls.

TripleDaisySummer · 31/08/2023 10:55

gezelligheid · 31/08/2023 10:51

I was in the dentist sorry. I have replied stating I will take a sling with me as it may be handy. I'm still going through reading replies but the general consensus is that I should ask and am not being unreasonable in asking, however I am aware there may be mental health issues at play which is why I wondered if I was unreasonable. I'm also aware of the fact that there are two of them and one of me with a baby so don't really fancy any altercations as I don't know how reasonable they'd be if I pointed out that they are dolls.

The two women are always together and the busses are usually every 30 minutes so it is quite an inconvenience. I wouldn't mind being inconvenienced by people with babies in prams or wheelchair users but it's annoying that it's people with dolls in prams.

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You might need to try a few slings/prams to find the most bus friendly.

Ideally women with dolls should realise an actual baby should take precedence - but then people can get odd about many things like moving for wheelchairs or moving shopping out for pushchairs - so I do get why you are wary about asking.

SnapdragonToadflax · 31/08/2023 10:55

WolfFoxHare · 31/08/2023 08:31

I always think this when I read posts advising people to "pop" their baby into a sling. I must be exceptionally cack-handed because I found it very hard to "pop" DS into any sling I tried, and he screamed blue murder in them as well, despite loving to be settled on my chest the rest of the time.

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Same! I think if you use them regularly you do get quick at getting them on and baby in (judging by friends of mine who've used them), but at first it's really tricky and I would hate to have to do it while under pressure of a bus arriving. Plus mine hated being in the sling too (hence why I never became practiced at it) - he loved the space of the pram and watching the sky.

caringcarer · 31/08/2023 10:55

LakeTiticaca · 31/08/2023 08:09

No:, dolls in prams should not take precedence over babies

This.

Jamtartforme · 31/08/2023 10:57

NeverDropYourMooncup · 31/08/2023 10:54

  1. I think sufficient posters have mentioned dementia, trauma from infant loss and learning disabilities already.
  2. It's a disability.
  3. The spaces weren't campaigned for, developed, funded and installed for the benefit of people with infants.
  4. Sometimes it's quite nice to not be a dick to those with such disabilities because it makes you feel big and clever to pick on vulnerable people.
Edited
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I don’t think any of that puts their rights ahead of OP’s. She needs the space for a real baby, they don’t, end of. Their reasons are probably very sad but also irrelevant.

Dreamingofthree · 31/08/2023 10:57

NeverDropYourMooncup · 31/08/2023 08:34

I think that if somebody is in possession of a reborn doll, it's an obvious indicator that they do have an invisible disability and would therefore have an entitlement to use the wheelchair space over and above somebody with a kid in a buggy, inconvenient though that is.

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Is it? I think that’s actually quite ableist.

i do not understand reborn dolls, I actually find it creepy but you can’t say everyone who has one has a disability (presumably mental)

girlswillbegirls · 31/08/2023 10:57

HairsprayBabe · 31/08/2023 10:40

@girlswillbegirls
So it is pouring with rain, I have to get my baby to a doctors appointment and the next bus is in an hour. I should just let it be because that person has had a hard life?

Why are we encouraging women to be doormats. There is nothing wrong with standing up for your right to take up space somewhere. Regardless of other peoples circumstances - You can handle it kindly but you don't need to roll over and do nothing.

You are missing the point. It's not about being a doormat.
This is not an entitled person taking two seats because they feel like it, its a mad person that their coping mechanism is to believe a doll is their baby.

Is it really that difficult not to embarrass that person in front of everyone? Is this not common sense?

By the way everyone here experineced the going on the bus on a rainy day etc. with a baby. Bring a sling. Buy an umbrella buggy. Whatever you do, don't embarrasss the poor lady. And be happy you aren't her.

That's my point.

Original poster
gezelligheid · 31/08/2023 10:58

Also the way I knew they were reborn dolls: I've seen their dolls and they are very obviously fake. I've seen them on multiple occasions, waiting for buses and pottering about town, their babies are always the same and have never aged nor changed because they are dolls.

OP posts:
CambridgeBuns · 31/08/2023 10:58

doroda · 31/08/2023 10:49

And the people with dolls are perfectly able to leave them at home rather than taking up space on buses, because they're NOT REAL

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Perhaps all mothers of all babies - living or doll - should think about others before setting out with huge prams when using public transport. There are options. Bulky prams aren’t necessities. If everyone thought this through, we’d not have the pram issue at all. We could revert to talking about suitcases. If the transport is busy or at peak times, apply common sense, wear your baby and fold up pram.

Jamtartforme · 31/08/2023 10:59

CambridgeBuns · 31/08/2023 10:58

Perhaps all mothers of all babies - living or doll - should think about others before setting out with huge prams when using public transport. There are options. Bulky prams aren’t necessities. If everyone thought this through, we’d not have the pram issue at all. We could revert to talking about suitcases. If the transport is busy or at peak times, apply common sense, wear your baby and fold up pram.

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Dolls aren’t babies. Now I shall step away from this thread.

HairsprayBabe · 31/08/2023 11:00

@sirzy the sign says something like ~Baby Buggy~ this area is reserved for families with infants in small prams and pushchairs
I will have to take a photo next time I am on the bus.

And even if it was not worded that way specifically your pedantry is unnecessary the spirit and intention of the space is clear - to help people with young children be able to use public transport more easily. Not sure why everything has to be a race to the bottom and no one should ever have their lives made 1% less difficult but there you go.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 31/08/2023 11:02

The only person I know (through social media) with a reborn doll is autistic and has an intellectual disability and has the dolls as some kind of therapy after having lost custody of their own children. Although I find it unusual, owning one of these dolls can be a sign of a hidden disability.

doroda · 31/08/2023 11:03

CambridgeBuns · 31/08/2023 10:58

Perhaps all mothers of all babies - living or doll - should think about others before setting out with huge prams when using public transport. There are options. Bulky prams aren’t necessities. If everyone thought this through, we’d not have the pram issue at all. We could revert to talking about suitcases. If the transport is busy or at peak times, apply common sense, wear your baby and fold up pram.

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A person with a doll isn't a mother, and a doll isn't a baby. HTH.

marblesthecat · 31/08/2023 11:05

I can't believe anyone is actually defending this.

HairsprayBabe · 31/08/2023 11:06

@girlswillbegirls completely disagree, in that situation a mother may not be able to collapse the pram and use the sling. Say she's pp from a C-section and going to her 6 week check, not an uncommon situation at all.

There are ways to do it kindly without embarrassing the woman with a doll but standing up for your own needs doesn't make you a bad person.

Hufflepods · 31/08/2023 11:06

NeverDropYourMooncup · 31/08/2023 10:54

  1. I think sufficient posters have mentioned dementia, trauma from infant loss and learning disabilities already.
  2. It's a disability.
  3. The spaces weren't campaigned for, developed, funded and installed for the benefit of people with infants.
  4. Sometimes it's quite nice to not be a dick to those with such disabilities because it makes you feel big and clever to pick on vulnerable people.
Edited
Show quote history

It's a disability.

Well no, infant loss which you have specifically included is not a disability. Nor is it, along with dementia or learning disabilities a reason for using the wheelchair space. It isn't a space for anyone with a disability, it is a wheelchair space.

JudgeJ · 31/08/2023 11:07

FionnulaTheCooler · 31/08/2023 08:15

While I think you definitely have a point about the reborn doll prams taking up space on the bus, but I also think the bus company has one about not wanting to police which prams have a real baby in them or not, could you get a sling to pop in the shelf under the pram for this situation? That way if the bus is already full with prams you can pop the baby in there while you fold yours down and still be able to get on.

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if the bus is already full with prams

Surely this means full with prams containing babies, not dolls. Would a wheelchair holding a Guy Fawkes dummy take precedence over the prams?

Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 31/08/2023 11:07

A person with a doll isn't a mother, and a doll isn't a baby. HTH.

^ This. Jesus is this where 'Be kind' has led us? Putting peoples feelings before a baby's safety?

Jamtartforme · 31/08/2023 11:07

doroda · 31/08/2023 11:03

A person with a doll isn't a mother, and a doll isn't a baby. HTH.

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this is beginning to read like an ‘identifying as’ scenario, and we know where #bekind got us with that last time

Dita73 · 31/08/2023 11:07

This is bollocks! They’re bloody dolls! Whatever reason these women have for having them is irrelevant as they’re jeopardising the safety of a real baby! Ask them to move them. If they don’t,move them for them

JudgeJ · 31/08/2023 11:09

wear your baby

Surely it's easier to 'wear' your doll?