Reborn dolls in the pram bay

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A couple of times now I've been unable to get on the bus with my baby in a pram because there are two local women who take their reborn dolls out in prams and take up the pram bays. I know they are reborn dolls as I've seen the dolls in their pram.

I understand people have reborn dolls for many different reasons but to take up a space meaning a real baby can't get on the bus surely isn't fair?

I've complained to the bus service and they've said they cannot monitor whether babies are real or not so if they get on the bus first I should ask them to put their pram down upon boarding.

I'm worried this will cause an altercation on the bus so I'm wondering AIBU to say something on the bus even though it may be embarrassing for the women?

Is it really the worst hardship for someone with a plastic doll to not take their doll out in a pram if they know they're getting on a bus? Regardless of the reasons they have the doll, it is a DOLL they can leave it at home or put it in their bag or if they really want to roleplay they can use a sling. There is absolutely no reason for a person to be bringing a doll in a pram on the bus.

Because two people with dolls have pushed ahead of her

It sounds absurd of course it does. But I posted that in response to a conversation including a pp who put this seemingly absurd scenario in some real world context:

A very close relative of mine has a newborn doll and takes it out and about with her and has a pram and accessories for it. She has autism and emotional/developmental delay. She believes she is ready to start a family of her own but for many reasons, this cannot happen for her. Her doll/her baby is her security in a world which she struggles to make sense of.

When you recognise that these “dolls” may, in fact , be essential “equipment”, through which people with complex disabilities and mental health issues are able to navigate and cope in the world, the situation looks somewhat different.
furthermore, Surely this circumstance is fairly exceptional/ rare. I am a mum who uses buses all the time and have yet to meet a person with a reborn doll taking up a pram space. If I did, I’d like to think I would have the compassion to recognise it’s just one of those (rare) circumstances in which you make accommodations for those who are perhaps struggling in ways that are incomprehensible to oneself.

In the circumstance OP is describing, I think she’s absolutely fine to simply ask the women to fold down their pram and make space. Hopefully they would.

There is absolutely no reason for a person to be bringing a doll in a pram on the bus
did you read this from a pp above?

A very close relative of mine has a newborn doll and takes it out and about with her and has a pram and accessories for it. She has autism and emotional/developmental delay. She believes she is ready to start a family of her own but for many reasons, this cannot happen for her. Her doll/her baby is her security in a world which she struggles to make sense of

How do people know that they've never encountered it? These dolls are realistic, are they peering into prams and prodding sleeping babies to see if they're human? Asking all mothers if their child is real?

In the circumstance OP is describing, I think she’s absolutely fine to simply ask the women to fold down their pram and make space. Hopefully they would.

The OP has already explained that she is too afraid to ask the women to fold one of their prams. She has explained that they look like addicts.

The fact that they have both 'pushed ahead' of someone with a real baby, in order to secure the pram spaces for their dolls first, might be an indicator that they're not especially reasonable or considerate.

Yes, and she also said her relative uses a sling as well as the pram and only folds down the pram if asked. They could just as easily not use the pram if they know they're going out with their doll on the bus as I just said in my message. Most people who haven't seen her before won't know that it's a doll so won't ask her relative to put her pram down, and most bus drivers would drive past if the bus already has too many prams on so taking up that pram space for a doll is selfish when they could just go out with the doll in a sling instead of the pram.

It may be a rare occurrence for most people but in my area these two women are doing it often, I've encountered them 3 times in a short space of time so I can guarantee I'm not the only person they have inconvenienced.

They could just as easily not use the pram if they know they're going out with their doll on the bus as I just said in my message

Most people who haven't seen her before won't know that it's a doll so won't ask her relative to put her pram down, and most bus drivers would drive past if the bus already has too many prams on so taking up that pram space for a doll is selfish when they could just go out with the doll in a sling instead of the pram

how could you possibly presume to know what she “could” “just as easily” do. Do you have autism And learning delay? Are you suffering from the trauma of feeling ready to have a family, knowing on some level that will never be possible for you?
Do you have any insight or understanding into how this doll helps her navigate or cope in the world?

Hearing about a woman with complex disabilities , and how much this doll is essential to her, you still choose to call her “selfish”???

I think your attitude is seriously nasty and ableist.
I’ve lost all sympathy or interest I initially had in your predicament.

Yes I do have a mental disability, and yes I have lost a baby in a traumatic way after years of infertility. The baby I have now I was told I would probably never be able to conceive so in fact, I do have experience of this thank you very much.

The PP with the relative who takes their doll on the bus even said their relative can fold the pram down and use a sling when asked - which is why I said wouldn't it be better to not take the pram out if you know you're using the bus.

It comes down to the bus company rules. Unless they change them to say luggage and prams have the same priority in the pram bay then the people with dolls will have to move out of the way. It’s that simple- pram with no baby is luggage.
You think nothing about how parents with a real baby feel - stress, tired, no sleep, working shifts exhausted and just want to get home, looking after other kids and a baby etc . As I understand it reborn babies don’t need 24/7 care as they are inanimate objects. Real babies require 24/7 care. I know which one goes first no matter the mental health of both parties - to be clear it’s the living human babies that are first.

Unless they change them to say luggage and prams have the same priority in the pram bay then the people with dolls will have to move out of the way

Actually I think in many cases those dolls might arguably better be described as essential aids for the disabled. Which take first priority, always.

You think nothing about how parents with a real baby feel - stress, tired, no sleep, working shifts exhausted and just want to get home, looking after other kids and a baby etc.

Im a working mother, with a toddler, baby and I’m currently pregnant. I’m well aware of how parents “with a real baby feel- stress, tired, no sleep, working shifts, exhausted“ etc. and while I have every sympathy, I still don’t think it’s ok to be ableist, cruel and dismissive to others with really complex vulnerabilities and needs.

As has been pointed out on previous thread, it's a space intended for disabled people, not women with children. It could be argued that somebody with a disability such as a mental health one could be more appropriately in that space due to their disability/illness manifesting in having a pram with a doll in it than a bog standard healthy woman with a baby.

I don't particularly care one way or the other, tbh. If I'm using crutches, no fucker ever shifts their pavement panzer to enable me to stick my leg out straight and I'm left poking it out into the aisle in any case.

@Skinthin can you explain how a doll in a pram is an essential aid when getting the bus, over and above the doll being in a sling?

It IS selfish. But when the person has disabilities or delays to the extent that they can't recognise the inconvenience and difficulties they might be causing others, the selfishness lies with relatives/carers who don't encourage any differently.

Disabled? Only wheelchair/scooter users get to use the wheelchair bay. There are priority seats but actually no disabled priority. How would you classify mental disability for use of the pram bay? The pram bay is for human babies in prams. The pram pushers of these real life babies might have mental illness or even mental disabilities but mental/physical problems are not the issue for the bus company rules.

How is it ableist to be following the bus company rules? Interested to hear that one.

How was I cruel in saying they can use a sling instead of taking up the pram space? You even questioned my own fertility history, trauma, and disability status and made no apology in that when I explained my own circumstances so I doubt you actually care about the feelings of disabled people and just wanted to virtue signal.

Sensibly put.

You seem to be quibbling now over whether it’s a space for wheelchairs or a space for the disabled, choosing to argue now that it’s a disabled space, even though in your post of 11.02 you said clearly it’s a wheelchair space.

I think your posts are getting confusing because you’re trying to maintain an untenable position- that a doll in a pram should take precedence over a baby in a pram. Well I think it’s untenable anyway.

Even if a person with a reborn in a pram does have a disability (and that’s very much an if, they may well not have), it’s the reborn that is the aid, not the pram. Generally speaking, they can be expected to more easily manage some other way e.g. with a sling, than someone with a real baby could.

How was I cruel in saying they can use a sling instead of taking up the pram space

you said there “was no reason” that someone would need to take a doll in a pram on the bus, when you have learned of possible reasons that relates to complex disabilities and trauma. You said that pP’s relative “could just as easily” do x rather than y when you had no basis whatsoever for making that statement (the fact that the pp said she could put the baby in a sling when asked is not sufficient to justify that assumption) and you declared that she was “selfish” for not doing so.

LOl that you think you are owed an apology just because you claim to have a “mental disability” and past troubles with infertility. You were ableist , dismissive and cruel in your assumptions and you clearly have very limited insight into the type of complex issues that pp’s relative is navigating

Buses must be accessible to disabled people. This may include disabilities of a range of types. What about blind people with a dog or a stick . What about those on crutches etc?

You know nothing of my diagnosis, my struggles, the way that affects my daily life so aren't you being ablist and dismissive in assuming I know nothing of what the relative has to deal with?

The PP even said her relative can use a sling so THAT is why I said they should just use the sling rather than the pram. I don't know how that is so hard to understand?

Also, just because you have a mental impairment doesn't mean you can't be selfish. As you seem to be so intent on telling me I'm nasty and cruel despite me having a mental impairment

You're confused. It's a WHEELCHAIR BAY. Not a free for all space for anybody with any kind of disability.

Buses do have to be accessible but this is also done in other ways such as priority seating, ramp onto bus if needed, bells at different heights etc.

so aren't you being ablist and dismissive in assuming I know nothing of what the relative has to deal with

No, because I’m basing this entirely on your own statements, ( as above). Regardless of your own issues , your statements are the evidence of that.

The PP even said her relative can use a sling so THAT is why I said they should just use the sling rather than the pram. I don't know how that is so hard to understand?

Just because she is able to use a sling when asked doesn’t mean she “could just as easily” always take the doll in a sling and she is therefore “selfish” in not doing so, and that there is “no reason” why she should ever take the doll in a pram, or anyone else should, for that matter. You have made huge assumptions /
leaps there, all the while being presented with what is clearly an incredibly sensitive and sympathetic scenario, related to complex disabilities and trauma . Instead you chose to focus on your own (in your words) right not to be “inconvenienced”.

Also, just because you have a mental impairment doesn't mean you can't be selfish

I certainly didn’t ever state such a silly thing. But you assumed her actions were “selfish” in this specific instance, when it had already been explained they related to complex disability .

The fact that you are still arguing that someone's right to carry a doll in a pram is more important than a real life human baby having somewhere safe to be on the bus is very very odd.

No matter what the reasons for having a doll on the pram are, a real baby should take priority over a doll when it comes to taking up the pram space.

Sorry OP, there are some batshit replies on this thread, but you are absolutely not being unreasonable to think that dolls shouldn’t be taking up spaces for babies in prams. I would ignore the hysterical accusations on here, but as for what you can practically do, it sounds like there aren’t many options unless the bus company changes policy.

No one needs pram space for their doll, no matter how unwell or supposedly disabled they might be. What a ridiculous position some posters are taking.

ok, if instead of engaging with the arguments made, you wish to simply repeat your original opinion and call me “odd”, there is no point whatsoever in continuing this discussion. It’s a waste of both of our time.

FWIW originally voted YANBU and thought it was really odd that someone would take up space on a bus with a doll in a pram, but having had this put into real world context for me by some pp’s on this thread, and learning more about the function of these dolls for those with complex disabilities, trauma and mental health needs, my mind has definitely been opened. The dismissive way that you have engaged, on the other hand, has (as stated) made me lose all interest and sympathy for your position.

So all in all this has been an educational debate for me, and I’ve certainly changed my mind.

YABu and over and out .