Reborn dolls in the pram bay

[gezelligheid]

A couple of times now I've been unable to get on the bus with my baby in a pram because there are two local women who take their reborn dolls out in prams and take up the pram bays. I know they are reborn dolls as I've seen the dolls in their pram.

I understand people have reborn dolls for many different reasons but to take up a space meaning a real baby can't get on the bus surely isn't fair?

I've complained to the bus service and they've said they cannot monitor whether babies are real or not so if they get on the bus first I should ask them to put their pram down upon boarding.

I'm worried this will cause an altercation on the bus so I'm wondering AIBU to say something on the bus even though it may be embarrassing for the women?

Some people seem to think I've just made this up and accusing me of abandoning thread when I've in fact responded multiple times (between being at the dentist and having children to look after I'm not able to respond instantly)

Here is a copy of the email from Arriva regarding the issue. Hope that confirms that I am actually a real person who has had this issue?? My name is hidden for obvious reasons as I don't want to out myself online.

Me too! I'm astonished!

I’m astounded that someone would want the hassle of unnecessarily taking a pram on the bus.

*Oh, it's a "be kind" thing with you. But only towards people behaving highly inappropriately, never to the rest of the public who are inconvenienced by them.

At least with a high horse like yours, you'll never need to take the bus! 😂*

Please stop telling me what I think. You're sounding a right plum with your rant.

It's a " pandering to mental health " thing.

Like I said very compassionate.

Yeah...I tend not to give much time to controversial threads where the OP doesn't come back.

FYI she's been back twice.

Man, I would be full on "I need the space for my real baby" and call out this lunacy for what it is

Well what happened last time we agreed to make allowances for a supposedly very small number of people, who wanted to identify as something they weren’t, because it was ‘kind’ to do so and they likely had some kind of severe mental health issue which needed our accommodation more than we needed to stick by the facts of reality?

We’ve learned that is is never in anybody’s interests to pretend something is real when it isn’t, in order to accommodate somebody else’s fantasy.

I’m truly empathetic towards any person struggling for any reason, but (and I’ll be flamed) I don’t think MH issues entitle somebody to whatever they wish.

Yep, when you join the dots, it's quite interesting, isn't it?

My DGM had schizophrenia and other MH problems, and she would rage furiously, "how dare they", when she received a reminder letter/final payment demand for a bill that she insisted (and genuinely believed) had already been settled, because she had been speaking to an imaginary voice in her head who had 'assured' her that they'd taken care of it for her. However much she 'identified' as having paid a bill, it still didn't mean that one of us didn't have to go and actually pay it for her in the real world, to avoid her utilities being cut off.

However, don't forget that Teresa May angrily shouted at us that what you refer to is most definitely NOT a mental illness, thus nailing her nasty ableist colours firmly to the mast in clearly demonstrating her very obvious belief that those with MH problems should feel ashamed of it, rather than receiving the help that they need, just the same as those with physical health problems.

However, those who are accused of any kind of phobia clearly must be suffering from MH issues...

I’m astounded that someone would want the hassle of unnecessarily taking a pram on the bus.

No kidding! I was overjoyed when our DS became old enough to not need any more than having somebody hold his hand when travelling in public, and we were able to consider prams and pushchairs a part of history.

What happens if someone has some big suitcases in the bay or there are just too many people stood up to make space?

Ended up in a Tiktok rabbit hole about this and apparently only a very tiny fraction of the reborn market are actually women affected by baby loss/infertility. It's a convenient knee-jerk explanation of course, which forces people to be very sensitive about the topic because they assume the dolls are created for grieving mothers. However, logically, if you ask any woman who has gone through miscarriage or infertility, 99% would be resoundingly against getting a creepy silicone baby as a way to heal.

The real reason behind it seems more complex. I think most of the dolls are used in a role-playing or escapism for people with MH needs.

Can I mention those people who take their fur babies out in prams and use the spaces in buses and trains

I mean it's bad enough people call their dogs "fur babies" ...

This ^

I see this like a simple thing.

You have to be as mad as a brush to belive a doll is a baby. And put them in a pram and look after them in your private and public life.
I think we all agree with that.

Is it that difficult not to expose this person and let them be? What is the chance you will encounter this in public transport? Either for role play or trauma post stillbirth it's very very sad to think this is the life for an adult.
This thread makes me sad. There is very little compassion in the world.

(Ps. I have 3 children myself that once were babies. I think having children open my eyes in many ways).

I would take this further with the bus company. They are simply washing their hands if it which is just not on!

As a new mother you are typically sleep deprived , your hormones haywire, your body recovering from the trauma of birth and they think it’s reasonable to ask you to confront other bus users with mental health issues? Nope!

Perhaps CAB could get involved?

If I were you I’d not let this go.

How do you know? You have no idea what losses the people on this thread have suffered.

Babies before dolls. Full stop.

Is it that difficult not to expose this person and let them be? What is the chance you will encounter this in public transport? Either for role play or trauma post stillbirth it's very very sad to think this is the life for an adult.
This thread makes me sad. There is very little compassion in the world

The point is, if I have a real baby and someone with a doll is stopping me getting on the bus home, there isn't going to be much compassion. Someone with a doll can fold their pram and move. Someone with a baby may not be able to.

Pity about the Maclaren buggies although I've been lectured many times on here that they weren't suitable from birth (even though I had one which was and folded so a baby could lie flat but clearly I was imagining its suitability). Modern buggies are far too big.

I've not seen this (though I've seen lapdogs in prams in the pramspace on the bus). A doll is a toy. It can be put on the floor in a carrier bag. A Baby can't.

Buses don’t have to provide space for a pram at all so I’m not sure exactly what your expecting CAB or anyone to do.

bus companies have enough trouble enforcing wheelchair spaces

I think all women deserve compassion.

I would totally stand up for a mum of a real baby struggling with a pram if there was a toy in the parking area. I don't care what their problem is and if they feel awkward and cry. Not my problem, I stick up for babies and their mums /carers everytime.

I think all women deserve compassion.

Yes but what is your view on baby safety? Who do you think should have had the space, the baby or the doll?

The doll thing is a red herring though, it would be the same if someone was on the bus before you and had a lot of luggage. First come first served really, no one should have to get off because you want to get on at a later stop.

Luggage can't be folded down to make more room though. These prams can be folded, and it can be done without any safety concerns.

Do you also think that wheelchair users should concede that space to a doll?

Or is it just women with babies who need to #bekind?

You are right. Modern buggies are ridiculous. I often take the Tube to work and there is regularly a group of mums in sports gear, with huge, long running buggies forcing their way on at rush hour to go…. One stop! Run the one stop, fold up the pushchair or wait until the rush hour is over. We don’t want to be crowded on a train at all, but to unnecessarily squeeze so the entitled can get on!

When mine were too small for Maclarens, I used a combination of Bugaboo Bee (which can also be folded quite easily) or sling, depending on where we were going.