Would you prefer private school?

[Dontbeamenace]

I'm sure I would prefer private school for my children. Would it matter to you if money was no cost?

Why do people assume that the behaviour in a state secondary is so appalling? The behaviour in the inner city deprived area that I teach in is excellent and more schools round here are going down the route of zero tolerance.

Because the ability to use common sense and reasonable behaviour policies seems to often depend entirely on cohort.

I've worked at some amazing state schools where I could lend children a pen without having to keep tally and give them a detention. They borrowed a pen, returned it at the end of the lesson, no time wasted and everyone could focus on learning. Common sense approaches worked well because on the whole the vast majority of pupils understood what was expected of them and their parents were sensible.

I've also worked in some state schools where students thought nothing of dismantling every pen given to them, then they'd be verbally abusive if told not to and their parents would back them.

Which of the two schools do you think ended up being taken over by a large zero tolerance MAT and now has high numbers of students in the PRU or on managed moves for fairly minor infractions? It's almost like the MAT is hoping to offload some of their cohort.

There was something very interesting a couple of years ago in the Guardian about certain MATS and what they do to flatten the grass/exclude large numbers of students.

In Scotland kids can't be expelled. That creates an attitude of 'you can't touch me' amongst kids and despairingly, their parents. I live in the area I grew up in, state educated and whilst I didn't love my high school, it did me fine education-wise and the disruptive kids were dealt with. Now despite being an ok area still, parents like us are clambering to send our kids private, at least for secondary, as classrooms are full of disruptive behaviour and kids who are educated in a mainstream school despite their needs not being met.

I'd regret it too if I spent all that money on your private education and you still didn't know when to use I and when to use me 😂😂

Sorry, couldn't resist.

As a state school teacher, it’s hard not to feel a bit disappointed that so many people feel we’re not fit to teach their children. There are so many great teachers out there!

As a state school teacher, it’s hard not to feel a bit disappointed that so many people feel we’re not fit to teach their children. There are so many great teachers out there!
I know what you mean, but then as a decent state school teacher I also know that how much impact I have is heavily influenced by factors that have nothing to do with my talent and competence.

Every teacher I know in the state sector has stories of classes, typically KS3 but increasingly KS4, not having qualified staff, not having subject specialists and that's before the pastoral, behavioural and social issues that affect schools differently.

If many of the broader issues were dealt with, more decent teachers would still be teaching because they could come to work and get on with teaching.

We home Ed. I’d always opt for that

We’re lucky that we’re fully staffed. As the school is improving, more people are wanting to work here, especially as behaviour is very good.

I think it varies drastically from place to place

I don’t understand why teachers wouldn’t want to teach in private schools over state. More effective means of dealing with disruption, resources such as textbooks available, more engaged pupils, on average more intelligent pupils (if a selective school), less admin, less chance of you having to reach out with your subject area. Surely a much more enjoyable teaching experience.

as someone with experience of kids at state and private, I think the ability of the teachers is the same across the schools. It’s the other stuff the parents are paying for.

This. The zero exclusion policy is celebrated by the SNP as though the state of lawlessness in schools is something to be applauded. It’s an astoundingly poor policy that is destroying the education of so so many pupils.

I don’t understand why teachers wouldn’t want to teach in private schools over state. More effective means of dealing with disruption, resources such as textbooks available, more engaged pupils, on average more intelligent pupils (if a selective school), less admin, less chance of you having to reach out with your subject area. Surely a much more enjoyable teaching experience.

Yes... that's why I do work in a private school!

The pay is usually better in state schools - even if it’s nowhere near enough!!

Yes. Absolutely. Because I live in a deprived area with poor school results. You'll find that the majority of people who say they'd never consider it already live in good to high socioeconomic areas where they don't have to worry about sending their kids to a shite school, because the median income is higher. So it's not really a comparison. I can imagine that if those same people lived in a Shiite house, in a shite area, with little prospects, there would be a very, very different answer!!!

Not sure we’re assuming every state school is the same. Many of us are going on personal experiences of the specific schools in our catchment. My catchment school literally had criminal students in it, and I would also have been going there with the boys from my state junior school who tried to beat me up with a scooter.

My parents had no problem with my state junior teachers, and neither did I, especially in terms of teaching abilities. The problem was the other kids at my school, and failure to deal with violent bullying.

I get you have a really difficult job though, I wouldn’t want to do it. And although no one needed to be while I was there, my private school could obviously expell pupils. No one tried to beat me up either.

I have no doubt the majority of teachers at my local state school are phenomenal at their jobs and do their absolute best in challenging conditions.

I don’t pay for private because I believe the teaching is better. My DC’s teachers have a much easier job - the students are within a narrow ability range, they have necessary resources and books, all the parents are heavily invested in their education, behavioural issues are few and they get autonomy in terms of the curriculum they teach. There are specialist subject teachers so the class teacher has time in the school day (primary school). The teacher can be less competent than a state school teacher and children still achieve much more with these factors at play

No - I could afford it but wouldn’t. I don’t want to live in a world where you can buy something as fundamental to the structure of society as education - ‘better’ education for the rich and worse for the poor?! That just makes inequality in society worse. Also, the worse thing is the sense of entitlement and lack of self awareness that comes from private education - I work at a university and whilst I meet a wide variety of wonderful young people - a small proportion of privately education students genuinely do not understand the privilege that they have, make choices without any understanding of the limitations that others face, and seem to live as if the world will just give them what they need as it has for the first 20 years of their lives. They often really struggle with failure, like poor grades, because they haven’t been allowed to fail at anything for their whole childhood so haven’t developed resilience, only to be picked up by a safety net that just pays for the next degree, or a year of travelling or whatever. And - I genuinely think that exams grades from public schools are worth less - and university admissions boards are starting to see that too - look at the number of contextual offers - entry to law at Edinburgh for example. top grades at GSCE when there were ten people in your class, compared to 33 as a starter, and the assumption that you had an easy and privileged life (when, as we all know, many parent scrape to send kids to private school, and kids at private school may also have experienced trauma etc) - means people which judge you more harshly, so private school is longer a sure thing for better outcomes

It all went very quiet about those outrageous “teacher assessed grades” in covid where some private schools (and a few state but mostly private) suddenly found that their entire cohort that year happened to be A star grade students 🙄. Who’d have thought it?!

That’s when it’s an easy choice to go state.

@willWillSmithsmith yes, absolutely. It's a no brainer and I realise how fortunate we are

I just took issue with a PP's blanket assertion that ALL private schools are amazing and ALL state schools appalling

I could have written your post word for word until my own personal situation meant I'm now looking to go private for my DS. It's easy to put a moral stance on it if your own situation means private is unnecessary. Presumably you have kids in an underperforming state school given you wouldn't think it right to buy into an excellent state school catchment either?

In our state school, doing those CAGS was harrowing. But when it came down to it, we had do be professional and as fair as we could be.

The local private school posted flyers through everyone’s door about their wonderful exam results! Interestingly their results have plummeted since actual exams have restarted!

Depends on the school and depends on the fit. I went to a genuinely mixed comprehensive in the local town from a rural primary. Nothing special at all but I had a great state education. Me and my brothers were the first generation of our family to go to university and have gone on to become a doctor, QC and university lecturer. More generally - despite normal ups and downs - we’re all quite close and have had good lives. I even have a few friends in adulthood who stayed in the village I grew up in. I would love a similar option for DC but it doesn’t exist where I am now:

Local academy gets top grades but is exceptionally strict and hard driving. OFSTED seem to love it. We were just outside the small catchment which is a mix of v expensive housing and social housing. To be honest I thought it would be a bad fit for DC. I don’t like the hot housing vibe and competition - good grades aren’t everything.

Academically selective options are single sex. DC probably could have attempted entrance exams but people tutor heavily for these here. I suppose we could do the same but not what I want for my children eg. Lots tutor from age 7. 1 tutor gave me a flyer for one of his tutees getting an A* in maths at age 9 and banged on about the importance of us + DC being committed to the process and hours of homework 😬. I’ve been told the boys school in particular has good pastoral care (much more relaxed and progressive than the academy) once you’re in so might have been good if DC had gone and the pace suited them.

The most local local has a GCSE pass rate of less than 40% and there was a knife problem a few years ago (not heard anything recently to be fair).

We have gone private. DC are thriving, happy, bright and doing well academically. Most private schools don’t aspire to turn out the Burlington Club types that have messed up our country, but they do offer families choices in a way the current state system doesn’t.

Think that’s why I’m posting and it’s so long sorry. In my 20s and childless I’d have been ideologically opposed to private school, truly believed you couldn’t get better than state education and assumed those who went were snobs buying privilege so they didn’t have to mix with poorer people. A bit older and with my actual children in the mix the decision is more pragmatic based on the actual schools available. Although I know it’s not a choice open to everyone.

Society has become more meritocratic BUT there are still huge gaps. I genuinely believe if you are of colour and a female you are still held back, I work in an arena where I see many equal CVs from ethnic minorities where they have not quite achieved what their white counter parts have, where this changes but only slightly is via education. I have increasingly noticed children from Private schools of Asian origin are not so behind their white counterparts even ahead, Im
not talking Rishi Sunak level but I doubt if he’d gone to his local comp he’d be PM today.

However 10 years ago he wouldn’t have been PM even with the same path he’s taken. Therefore I genuinely believe if you are off colour and want ‘access’ to a part of society you just can’t access then pay for the education.

a small proportion of privately education students genuinely do not understand the privilege that they have - but are you sure it's because they went to private school, or because they come from a wealthy family with indulging parents? I grew up in a country where private education didn't exist, but spoiled kids still did.

As a state school teacher, it’s hard not to feel a bit disappointed that so many people feel we’re not fit to teach their children. There are so many great teachers out there!

Of course there are. But the local school my DC went to had 35 kids in class, several of them disruptive and not interested in learning one bit. Even the best teacher can only do so much. And even a mediocre teacher, but with a class of 12 engaged students will in my opinion, achieve better results and happier environment.