To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

The tories have totally messed up the country recently I think that people who did or didn't vote for them can see they are doing an awful job and they have no reasonable expectation of winning next general election..... EXCEPT now the Tory press has created this total obsession about

1. Sex education and
2. Gender and trans issues.

They are painting them selves as the only party that will save us from the wokes who want to identify as a dog or teach 12 year olds how to have anal sex... this is what the Tory tabloids are claiming is happening in schools.

What does everyone think?

@StefanosHill - I sometimes visit FWR but of course I am soft peddling a bit in AIBU.

My view is that the changes which are hinted at to the Equality Act will not come before the election. Even if they did, the Labour Party will choose to retain them on receiving the same advice as Badenoch did. The Labour change on self ID did come, though I was told FWR I was deluded and that would never happen. I also believe Dodds suggested very vague change will never become hard policy.

More women than men support Labour. My view is that they need to be right back in there with their views. Only someone who ignored the chance to influence or change things would fold their arms and say never. I'd even talk to Kemi B about it!

I've followed this debate for years and I'd say most countries are rowing back from their previous positions now the extent of the capture and the resulting damage to women has become increasingly apparent. It's no longer possible for TRAs to say "but that never happens". And it's no longer possible for politicians to credibly argue there is no risk.

It's taking longer in countries that progressed further down the self-ID path on law, because they have to unpick everything and get the votes to support that unpicking. Canada is in a right pickle.

But the converse is also true. Assuming some posters are correct in saying Labour still want to pursue self-ID by stealth, that's only going to be possible if they win the GE with a healthy majority and there is little opposition in the Lords or rebellion in the commons. I cannot foresee a situation in the current climate where that would be the case - I think plenty of MPs would rebel, I think the Lords would make it hard to push through.

Therefore I don't think voting for parties that aren't conservatives is a particularly high risk strategy, or a choice that demonstrates I'm not a good enough GC feminist.

Which countries do you think are rowing back?

I think it was @FOJN who put a decent list up of some US states, the WM debate and maybe Sweden. Sketchy memory but saving scrolling back. Do you know other mechanisms by which laws or processes in other countries have been overturned?

As for Labour they are making the transition process easier, that’s the aim, the question stands how do women get single sex spaces when men change legal sex?

For some reason all there is is an article / press release but no show to talk in actual detail and outlining legal basis

Tbh I think the basic problem is that there are a lot of women who will never vote Tory but equally won’t vote Labour because of their attitude to women’s rights

i think the biggest problem with the next election is apathy & disillusion leading to a massive number of people simply not participating

No, new guidance came into effect earlier this year which means that a minister NOW has to approve a transwomen being housed in the female prison estate and they are clear that will only occur in exceptional circumstances.

The transwomen currently housed in the female estate will only remain if they have been assessed as low risk, they will have a behaviour history during their detention which will make this possible.

I would prefer no males in the female estate under any circumstances but it's an improvement.

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-transgender-prisoner-policy-comes-into-force

Are labour really going with keir for the election? He is so so uncharismatic. And for someone who studied law absolutely useless on this issue.

@StefanosHill

Yes this was changed by Raab and it's about the only good thing he did!

But the original policy was definitely signed off by a Conservative minister. It's just that they don't like to remember. And the old policy was quite old.

Btw no fan of SNP or Green or Labour on this issue. To varying degrees they are all rubbish.

What I dislike is a party with the means to address it, the power, and if they cared, the time to get relevant legislation through. That to me is women being played.

It's not a book? No one is asking you to read war and peace?
What is the issue with reading a few paragraphs?

I don't believe he believes all the gender crap. He's been badly advised IMO. And they've underestimated how important it is to people.

The Tory government is shoving our children under the bus.

Instead they refuse to issue the guidelines necessary to protect them. Cos its too hard and they don't give a shit.

Cunts.

I’ve thought the trans thing is an agenda, for a long time. It seems to have come out of nowhere…
And the menopause, in the media. Empowering for women? Or, look at the mad, bad, sweaty old bats!

Menopause: it happens to more than 50% of the population. It's normal. Deal with it.

The biggest issue is voter apathy and a divided nation with people who now seem unable or unwilling to be pragmatic and see the bigger picture. The Tories have really won here- 3 word slogans and whipping up hatred to win votes via misinformation ended with the national suicide that was brexit.

Alongside totally dismantling the NHS, infrastructure such as rail and basically privatising social care in that councils have to now buy in services such as care home provision for the elderly and placements for vulnerable children this government has been focused on making money for their mates. I work in child protection- a placement for a vulnerable teen is easily £9000 a week and all local authorities are fighting for them. Every thing has been privatised via the back door.

It is really telling that the hard of thinking would not vote for Starmer because 'he has no charisma' . This is what politics is now- rather buffoon Boris who has total contempt for the electorate, democracy, the truth etc.... or a single issue because 'At least a tory knows what a woman is'. Tories do not give a shite about women. They will however say or do whatever to get a vote.

They will however say or do whatever to get a vote.

I realise us hard of thinkers are obviously not good enough to vote, but even I can see the whole bloody point of being a political party is to gain votes.

Your not trying to tell me that all the parties wont lie about anything to get votes? I've a bridge to sell you if you believe every word any party says.

Tories do not give a shite about women. They will however say or do whatever to get a vote.

Yes, I know

So this should be an open goal for Labour, or indeed any opposition party. And yet they all prefer to placate men with special feelings rather than acknowledge and address what that means for women.

The Tories don't give a shite about women, but neither does anyone else.

Hard agree that this is an open goal for Labour. They have an opportunity to wipe the floor with the Tories on women's rights, and they're not.

My focus remains on the 'why not' and I'm not succumbing to the whataboutery that deflects attention from analysing what is going on with Labour and why

This is also an excellent point. What is the hold up with the schools guidance??

Amazing 👏

Labour are following the money, it's that simple. There are plenty of articles and one programme about who funds trans activists. Add that Starmer knows that whatever by elections suggest the general election is less certain and he may need the lib dems. I remember the puberty blocker firm giving the lib dems £100,000, wonder how much they've had since and how much is hidden behind less obvious names.

It's not apathy though - it's definitely disillusionment. I'll be writing something oon my ballot paper but it's probably not going to be a vote.

I remember the puberty blocker firm giving the lib dems £100,000, wonder how much they've had since and how much is hidden behind less obvious names.

IIRC it was 1.4 million not 100k.

All party groups at Westminster getting donations from pharma.

LDs was £100k if it’s this pharma company you mean.

Sorry it's from a while ago but was reported in The Times. Seems it was 1.5 million over 6 years. The share token links no longer work for me.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3762900-puberty-blocker-drug-firm-donated-cash-to-lib-dem-s-the-times?reply=92153040&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

I've followed the debate closely since 2013. I used to be gender critical myself before I came out so no, it's not that. I just really don't agree with the movement anymore and that's fine, I'm happy with your viewpoint and I'd like to think people are fine with mine 💁

You really don't agree with women being able to have single sex spaces or children being kept away from experimental medical and surgical treatments?

I actually do agree with both of those things, and many trans people would agree with that as well. Gender crits sit on Twitter and get fed a stream of all the bad stuff designed to provoke outrage, probably bad for your own mental health really. I tune out of it now