To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

The tories have totally messed up the country recently I think that people who did or didn't vote for them can see they are doing an awful job and they have no reasonable expectation of winning next general election..... EXCEPT now the Tory press has created this total obsession about

1. Sex education and
2. Gender and trans issues.

They are painting them selves as the only party that will save us from the wokes who want to identify as a dog or teach 12 year olds how to have anal sex... this is what the Tory tabloids are claiming is happening in schools.

What does everyone think?

Sock puppeting is name changing within a thread so it appears like multiple posters have the same view when in fact it's just one poster. It's against MN rules.

Name changing is changing UN between threads, maybe for anonymity etc. It's fine.

I have talked to a variety of UNs across different threads about how I'm on a purity spiral and always assumed it was the same right wing poster with a penchant for name changing hence why I said "hello purity spiral poster".

Of course, it could just be a common right wing insult that I don't know about because I don't move in those circles.

This isn't a thread about Labour, or what they will offer but I'll answer anyway

Zero tolerance to violence against women

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/24/keir-starmer-pledges-zero-tolerance-violence-women-girls

Investment in boosting affordable quality childcare

https://www.workingmums.co.uk/labour-childcare-plans/

Protecting workers rights from day 1, including those on zero hours contracts. Far more women than men work on a zero hours contract.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66547116.amp

Labour are also planning to strengthen parental leave rights at work.

What are the conservatives planning, beyond reminding the world that women have vaginas?

Labours words might mean more of they treated their female MP's with more respect. It's a Labour problem not a Starmer problem and it's been going on for years.

The entire executive committee of the Battle and Bexhill CLP resigned in protest because the party failed to act when a trans activist launched a bullying and smear campaign against a member of that committee. The bully was later photographed with Corbyn.

They say one thing but their actions always say fuck you to women.

I assume an article by Rosie Duffield is sufficiently left wing for those who prefer echo chambers.

unherd.com/2023/01/the-labour-party-has-a-woman-problem/

Zero tolerance to violence against women

Pretending men are any type of woman and opening any and all access to female only spaces, IS an act of violence against women and girls.

As is wanting to change laws us force us to comply with the utter batshit that puts a man's subjective self image over and above all women's right to safety, privacy and dignity.

Removing the very right to name ourselves as a distinct sex class with distinct needs is an act of sex based violence and oppression.

Imagine telling half the fucking planet that we must give up our words and rights because a few men have an issue with their own body, a mental illness called dysphoria or get sexually aroused wearing knickers.

@AdamRyan

Of course, it could just be a common right wing insult that I don't know about because I don't move in those circles.

Wow. OK, yes it's a well understood phrase. No, it's not a ring wing insult.

If you have genuinely never come across it before your circles may be more limited/echo-chambery than you realise.

However, even without knowing the term I'm sure you'd recognise the pattern. I've been aware of it for decades just from own observations of fandoms and teen subcultures, way pre-dating the internet and certainly not tied to any particular politics.

the gender stuff has been a round for a long time, but mostly in the background.

In the last 10 years or so gender ideology has made its huge inroads into our schools, media, health system, government etc while the Tories have been in charge.

Many goverment institutions and civil service have been "captured" by gender ideology under Conservative governorship.

The Tory run DforE haven completley failed to address the capture of the education system.

Below is what Robin Walker (Minister of State for School Standards) wrote in a letter to my MP on my behalf in May 2022 after I raised the matter of gender ideological in roads into schools and Stonewalls influence on schools (in summary - "its nothing to do with us"):

"The Department believes that all children should be supported whilst growing
up. Our schools and teachers are committed to supporting all pupils to thrive
and reach their potential in a safe and respectful environment. Schools play an
important role in preparing pupils for life in modern Britain. This involves
supporting pupils to understand the society in which they grow up and
teaching about respect for other people and for difference.
Relationships education is now compulsory for all primary school pupils, as
is relationships and sex education (RSE) for all secondary school pupils, and
health education for pupils in all state schools. These subjects are designed to
give pupils the knowledge they need to lead happy, safe and healthy lives. We
expect all pupils to have been taught LGBT content at a timely point, as part of
this area of the curriculum, as set out in the relationships, sex and health
education (RSHE) statutory guidance. At the point at which schools consider it
appropriate to teach their pupils about LGBT, they should ensure that this
content is fully integrated into their programmes of study for this area of the
curriculum rather than delivered as a stand-alone unit or lesson. The statutory
guidance is available at: tinyurl.com/284ecYYk.
It should be noted that the Department does not fund Stonewall for any work in
schools. In addition, our Stonewall Diversity Champions membership expired
in February 2022.
Schools are responsible for setting their own policies on these subjects, in line with the statutory guidance. We expect schools to consult with parents and to make reasonable decisions about their curriculum. Schools should ensure that when consulting parents, they provide examples of the content and resources that they plan to use, as this can be reassuring for parents and enables them to continue the conversation started in class, at home.

In all schools, when teaching these subjects, the religious background of all
pupils must be taken into account when planning teaching, so that the core
topics are appropriately handled. All schools may teach about faith
perspectives. All schools must have in place a written policy for relationships
education and RSE that is made available free of charge.
The RSHE implementation guidance sets out clear guidance for schools in
choosing resources, and states that schools should assess all resources
carefully to ensure they are age appropriate, meet the outcome of the relevant
part of the curriculum, and are in line with the school’s legal duties in relation
to impartiality. It is available at: tinyurl.com/Yckdsx8w.
The Department cannot advise schools on which resources, external speakers or organisations will be the most suitable for schools to use, not least because schools operate in a variety of different contexts and have both the expertise and knowledge that makes them best placed to make these decisions. Many
schools draw on the work of subject associations when choosing resources.
Schools are also responsible for ensuring that they check a visitor or visiting organisation’s credentials. They should also ensure that the teaching or other content delivered by the visitor fits with their planned programme and their published policy. It would not, therefore, be appropriate for the Department to issue directives about the use of drag queens and other performers in schools.
Where an individual has concerns about these matters the quickest and most effective route to take is to raise the issue directly with the school. This will give the school the opportunity to respond and, where appropriate, take action to mitigate the concerns. All schools in England must have a formal school’s
complaints procedure, which is often on the school’s website."

It certainly is a well understood phrase. I think it is very telling that any poster would consider it to be a 'right wing' insult.

deleted

So what you're saying is that the Tories are sneakily doing as people ask of them and wilfully responding to issues raised by their constituents in a devious ploy to get people to vote for them?

Not only this but they are recklessly agreeing that sex is immutable, and that children need to be safeguarded?

Okay.

It really is remarkable just how these topics are often universally supported across all political spectrums, yet it is denied just how many 'left wing' leaning people support the topics being fully discussed and expect that decisions should be made based on evidence and not ideological grounds...

Yet, so many people immediately jump to the 'right wing' accusations because they seem to lack the ability to think critically and evaluate the information that is already out there and growing rapidly that shows there are alarms raised with people about the issues OP mentions. Many of the impacts revolve around other lowering the boundaries of children and women.

It must be very nice if you are not impacted by these issues and can just outsource your critical thinking in that way.

I don’t see why @FOJN was said to be using a ‘right wing insult’ and accused of name changing on top

I haven’t used the phrase but I see it from a fair few posters, it was a strange take that the above was going on

Mate there's no way I'm reading all that ✌

Ah, the kind of attitude that explains why people have no idea what is happening and why it matters.

The Dentons report has been deleted from the link in the Spectator.

You can find the Dentons report through this link though.

https://gendercriticalwoman.blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/iglyo_v3-1.pdf

Just adding this link for the Messaging Guide : Transgender Youth and the Freedom to Be Ourselves

From December 2021

static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4439659-Ryan-Grim-results-of-latest-trans-activism-poll-A-tweaked-playbook-for-the-US?reply=113763453

The Transgender Law Center’s work.

This link also shows a 'playbook' on how to leverage other social justice issues to manipulate people into supporting beliefs not upheld with any factual or scientific evidence at all. In fact, in this link above, the general population are called 'persuadables'. They are not hiding that this is pure emotional manipulation.

And finally, here is something similar from the UK Greens. Just in case people still doubt that there is an emotionally manipulative tactic being used across the world. This one gives people stock answers that they believe will work to either shame people into agreeing with them or that they feel will be 'convincing'.

https://lgbtiqa.greenparty.org.uk/2023/06/15/dogwhistle-guidance/

it is in archive sites if you want to track it down.

Caution: the link to the Greens includes some misinformation presented as 'facts'. Happy to have a discussion about this with anyone with questions.

What? Four questions that then lead into a fifth if you answer 'yes' to any of them?

Probably shows other's more about your own opinions than you would like.

Agree ^^

Those saying ‘I haven’t seen this in real life’, (code for: ‘it’s not an issue for me personally so I don’t care’) are in a privileged position not to be in need of single sex services for sexual assault or rape counselling or a female prison at one end of the scale. Or even in competing sports or just working in a university at the other end.

Great that this topic doesn’t affect you personally, but if you can’t care about protecting more vulnerable women in society then at least have the presence of mind not to actively obstruct those fighting for women’s rights and the safeguard of children.

It really is remarkable just how these topics are often universally supported across all political spectrums, yet it is denied just how many 'left wing' leaning people support the topics being fully discussed and expect that decisions should be made based on evidence and not ideological grounds...

It is beyond tedious. Especially when gender ideology is so capitalist and individualistic; lining the pockets of American drug companies and surgeons.

I criticise Labour because I'm a socialist and because i want a socialist government, albeit one that isn't misogynist.

Gender idealogues probably aren't all Tory or hostile state plants. Many are just misguided, in thrall to US culture or over compensating for repressed upbringings. But they sure as fuck are working well to fragment the left.

I admire the feminists that can carry on working with Labour (I resigned membership) but I don't think it's fair to demand women put their rights to the side for the good of the party. Misogyny is not just a temporary blip, our entire society is built upon it. Actual change will require politicians brave enough to tell the misogynist bullies to fuck off.

I know what a purity spiral is.
I don't understand how when I present my position, which in the real world appears to be a centrist, radical feminist, GC position, on here I am repeatedly accused of being affected by a "purity spiral".

And yes it has been used against me as an insult. Because it implies I'm ideologically driven rather than just having a different, entirely reasonable, opinion.

Now I have no idea who anyone is in real life. But it is factually accurate to say there has been reporting that is Sunaks electoral strategy to focus on wedge issues like trans rights to win the election. It is factually accurate to say the Conservatives are at least as culpable as any other party with respect to the current gender identity mess. It is factually accurate to say they are in power with a huge majority so could do something about it if they wanted to.

None of this is about "purity spirals" or Labour. Its about the conservatives. Lots of posters want to make this a left right battle and I question their motivations. Say Rishi Sunak wanted to influence "Winchester woman" to vote conservative. What better way to do that than get the message out on mumsnet?

I mean, how is this not an insult?
A purity spiral is a social dynamic in a group or social movement where members engage in competitive victimhood, or in the zealotry or purity of their views

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_spiral

Lots of posters want to make this a left right battle and I question their motivations.

I bloody well wish it was a left right battle, then I'd just choose the side that is in accordance with my views.

Yes RavingStone

Because people don't want to 'read 4 or 5 questions' that might challenge their world view or are simply needing to not deviate in their beliefs in case they contradict their friends or social circle, there are many out there who cannot understand that the first alarms were raised by left leaning feminists!

In fact, we see posters saying 'well, no lesbians believe that men cannot be women' when many of those very first feminists were also lesbians!

The studies over the past few years have started to show that the group of people aged between 18-28 are very concerned and do not raise their doubts with others for fear of being ostracised. So they simply don't discuss it.

Then people who aren't doing the reading and the thinking simply believe that all those in that age group agree, when it starts to become quite clear in other studies that a large portion of them do not agree at all.

There has been a significant destabilisation of language where tolerant, kind, compassion have been twisted around to mean the opposite of what the original intended meaning was and should still be. This gets dismissed by those without a fucking clue as 'well, language evolves'. No, it doesn't becomes destabilised in this way naturally. That 'language evolves' is another sign of someone who simply hasn't done any depth of thinking about the topic.

A purity spiral is a social dynamic in a group or social movement where members engage in competitive victimhood, or in the zealotry or purity of their views

Is this you?

I don't care who you vote for. Just don't pretend your Conservative vote is motivated by concern for women.

I don't want to tell you who to vote for. Great it's not the woman hating nasty party though.

The answer as feminists is not voting conservative. That's like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Of course, it could just be a common right wing insult that I don't know about because I don't move in those circles.

Please explain how these posts do not demonstrate complete contempt for anyone with right leaning political views? Conservative politics is mainstream not extremist.

You know during the 2016 US election cycle various polling groups tracked undecided voters and determined that the Democrats lost when Clinton referred to Trump voters as a "basket of deplorables". I correctly predicted Brexit, Trump and the 2019 Tory landslide, not because my politics are right wing but because I can see how left wing activists and supporters insulting Tory/right leaning voters alienates them and leads to a "fuck you" vote.

Perhaps you could confine your criticism to the Tory party rather than its voters if your aim is to persuade people.

Interesting particularly the Clinton part

But this I correctly predicted Brexit, Trump and the 2019 Tory landslide that’s actually pretty good going as predictions go, I can’t say I got them all right

As you’ve got it so right so far - any thoughts on next US Presidential election?, just out of curiosity

The Brexit vote wasn't a fuck you, it was a fuck myself vote.

I mean, some did well out of it but anyone stupid enough to vote so emotionally almost certainly imagined that Boris Johnson was a sincere person and there really would be money for the NHS.

There we go again with impugning people with differing views.

I have only noticed this tribal ad homming so clearly in the past few years - I think previously I just didn't register it so clearly.

It's not a terribly good way to persuade people to agree with you or vote for someone.