To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

The tories have totally messed up the country recently I think that people who did or didn't vote for them can see they are doing an awful job and they have no reasonable expectation of winning next general election..... EXCEPT now the Tory press has created this total obsession about

1. Sex education and
2. Gender and trans issues.

They are painting them selves as the only party that will save us from the wokes who want to identify as a dog or teach 12 year olds how to have anal sex... this is what the Tory tabloids are claiming is happening in schools.

What does everyone think?

It's total cope.

Apparently not only are we paid bots but according to some visitors to FWR there are only 6 of us with many different sock puppet accounts 😁😁😁

Which one of you other 5 are getting paid then? 😂
I"m not a sock puppet, I just self diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. (Or is that not trendy on the old tiktok anymore?)

Of course those who object to 'woman' being reduced to a man's fantasy role play or feelings and children being fed the bullshit they must destroy their perfectly healthy bodies to be their 'authentic self' are bots.

We'll add it to the list along with nazi's, right wing extremists, evangelical Christians, Terf's etc etc.

We've heard it all, because those who come here to defend the nonsense gender ideology cannot sting together one coherent argument, so they accuse and insult to try to shut us up.

I have felt oppressed by the left, by the actions of the Labour Party, because of the position they took with centring the interests of trans people over and above the concerns of many women. The Labour Party actively did this. THEY insulted, kicked out, and gas-lit people with 'middle of the road' views, who simply wanted thought to be given to competing interests. THEY took an extreme position of using the mantra 'trans women are women', refusing to listen or try and understand. THEY played a part in people losing their jobs as a result of holding what is by any measured judgment a balanced view.

Feeling understood and valued is key to obtaining political support, and Labour failed on this front for many of us. We are left hurt and baffled as to why this happened with this issue and we do not see any signs of them wanting to interrogate why/ where they went so wrong. My view is that misogyny is alive and well and that women's rights continue to be dismissed.

It seems to me that whilst Labour are now saying we need to debate, minimising and discounting is still happening e.g what about poverty, what about climate, this issue effects very few. THEY are still not demonstrating that they understand or care about the concerns of decent, caring and thoughtful people. THIS is massively contributing to the tension and the 'war'.

FFS Labour, pull your fingers out your ears, shut up and listen with the aim of understanding - not correcting, minimising or placating.

They need to win back trust. How do we know that history won't repeat itself with other issues going forward.

Labour have contributed to the unhelpful positioning whereby acknowledging women's interests can conflict with transwomen's interest can be viewed as an attack on trans rights. They have to confront this head on and be clear about wanting to find supportive ways forward for all. This does represent a loss for transwomen, but it was a gain that wasn't Labours to give away.

They need to own their mess and stop blaming others (the right wing press, the culture wars, the Tories).

the only reason we all care so much about the gender stuff is the total catastrophizing in the Tory press

Do you seriously think that, OP? That we don’t care about the loss of our very basic right to single-sex spaces and services?
Our right to not be handled by men when we need intimate care, not be watched by men when we’re undressing, not be forced to accept men exposing themselves at us and our children?

What about children’s right to discover their sexuality naturally as they grow up, and not be subjected to medical experimentation?

I’m very glad the Tory press has finally woken up to the genderist attack on women’s and children’s rights. I’m disgusted with the spineless left/ liberal media that still toe the genderist line.

The only reason so many people don’t protest is that they don’t know what’s going on, because the media have been so slow to start unbiased reporting.

If only the press could make the Tory government do something, but they're not going to do anything.

I'm heartened that Labour have dropped Self ID. There's a wee glimmer of hope that the Tory trans shitshow will end with them.

I struggle with how much minimising is happening with regard to an issue of rights. The chances of me being forced to share a prison cell or changing room or receiving intimate care from a male bodied person is irrelevant, I want it to be my right not to have to. Why is this so difficult to understand? Either I have this right or I don't. For a long time, Labour not only said that I don't have this right, but also threw in insults about needing to be educated so I didn't want this right. Whilst I am no longer be called a bigot for wanting this (by some of the Labour party), I am told that I shouldn't worry about it as I am unlikely to encounter it.

OP - I would welcome your thoughts on this.

@Brainworm the Tories have been in power for 13 years. They're the ones actually putting men into women's prisons and they've said they won't stop.

The problem is that using circumlocutions like menstruators, people with a cervix etc. To include transmen, you are going against the key principles of health literacy, which is keep it simple. The average person out there has a reading age of 13 and by using more complex language than woman you are going to exclude far more marginalised women (e.g. with learning dusabilities) than include transmen. I am all for targeted health communication using appropriate language for the trans community, but absolutely not in general health communication.

Are people so reassured by a Drs note for legal female sex certificate to enter single sex spaces, sports and the rest?

Labour have pulled a blinder if so.

Completely agree. It’s all bad but the minimising makes it worse, plus insults for good measure

Wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-changes-to-transgender-prisoner-policy-framework

It's the SNP government in Scotland who won't stop, they say they will consider the matter.

https://www.gov.scot/news/case-review-on-management-of-a-transgender-prisoner/

'Tories have been in power for 13 years. They're the ones actually putting men into women's prisons and they've said they won't stop'.

I don't care which parties are to blame for the current situation. I care about a solution being found. I am looking to Labour for this and finding them lacking!

I am at my wits end with current political discourse that focuses solely on whose fault and who is to blame. That is, in part, what should be discussed, but I want solutions and ways forward to follow.

Labour supporters are obfuscating with whataboutary, saying it's the Tories fault and by saying it rarely happens. This isn't good enough!

I'm reassured that Labour are tackling it. unlike our sitting Tory government who have consistently failed women and children because they can't get a handle on the TRAs in their own party.

I worry that the continued chaos within the Tory party will see Penny TWAW Mordaunt as their next leader.

TooBig - I would love to feel, like you, that Labour are tacking it. Please can you reassure me by sharing what it is that they have said they'll do.

Those changes in your link will allow exemptions for trans inmates on a case by case basis. So no change at all @Chersfrozenface.🙄

I can’t agree and a after a post suggesting Labour will be ok just makes me think of Orwell

I get some posters are pro Labour and are ready to concede but no. Tg there are voices of reason on these threads.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/uk-trans-rights-labour-party/674944/

the only reason we all care so much about the gender stuff is the total catastrophizing in the Tory press

This kind of statement is extremely minimising. For women who experience PTSD from male violence, this minimising often echoes the way they were made to feel after the act of violence. Women's pain is minimised and dismissed by the justice system (what was she wearing, she didn't fight back enough), by perpetrators (she wanted it before, she asked for it, she deserved it), friends (but he's a great guy,), the press,, ( devoted family man) etc etc.

These women have already experienced "catastrophe" at the hands of males. They tell you they need single sex provision. You tell them they say that ibecause of the Tory fucking press. Do you have any self awareness?

I can't agree and a after a post suggesting Labour will be OK makes me think of Orwell.

What?

My recommendation for Labour and Labour supporters who want to win back voters who feel immensely let down by Labour's stance to date........Start by showing you understand why support was lost on this issue, what concerns people still have and build confidence in how things will improve. Don't, or stop, trying to convince us it is a non-issue or that others would make it worse/ no better.

Right now, I don't care on who isn't doing enough, and who caused the problem - I want to see who is going to fix it.

And, as I'm not a straw man, I am also looking at who has the best policies for the environment, the economy and supporting marginalised groups. I can attend to all these things at once!

It's not just minimising but also fucking dense. It takes barely any research at all to clock that GC women were on this, sometimes at significant personal expense, long before the mainstream press took an interest.

Dodds' statement along with dropping Self ID will be warming the cockles of Labour loving hearts. Starmar is returning their party to them. I hope other parties follow suit.

In the meantime the Tory government continue to make us suffer this so they can use it in their Culture War.

Exactly. Dense but also politically motivated.

The Tory government would not be able to make any headway on this issue if the Labour party provided adequate rebuttals - but they don't.

I feel both sad and uncomfortable by the impact that upholding single sex spaces and provision will have on transwomen who have happily been accessing these spaces no longer being able to (I know that not everyone on this board feels this way). I also feel sad and uncomfortable that in order to protect sex based rights, it needs to be acknowledged that there is a difference between transwomen and women and that this difference is important in a range of contexts. I don't get any pleasure from knowing that in upholding sex based rights, some encounter distress (ranging from self hatred and loathing to narcissistic rage). However, Labour need to be open and honest about this. They need to say that in these instances they are protecting sex based rights and will work hard to mitigate the problems that this causes groups of people for whom this presents difficulties.

There's no pleasing all the people all the time on this.The challenge is that trans advocacy groups are significantly over represented by people with issues relating to narcissism and aren't great at collaborating and joint problem solving.

Also, there are loads of reasons why women might feel uncomfortable about going for their smear. Sexual assult experiences, difficult childbirth, general feelings of modesty or vulnerability - loads. That is why healthcare professionals do try to make them as quick and easy as possible.

If someone is 'avoiding cervical screening', the onus is on them to take responsibility for their mental and physical health like we all must do in adult life. The onus is not on the rest of society to change everything up to make a certain group of people more comfortable.