To think my friend was not BU in this cafe situation?

[TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress]

My friend runs a small independent cafe that is dog friendly but the dogs have to be outdoors. Over the weekend, a family of six people came in with 2 dogs and were directed outside. The tables outside are picnic benches that seat 10, inside the tables seat six (they’re all the same size). The family went outside and took 2 picnic benches. Which annoyed my friend as that’s depriving potential customers of a bench but she let it go and said nothing.

She noticed one of the children, a boy aged about 8, having a tantrum outside because he doesn’t like eating outdoors and wants to eat indoors. Next thing she knew, his mum had brought him inside and sat him at the last available table (with an iPad blasting). She asked my friend if his order could come to that table as he doesn’t like eating outside so she said he could come in and eat alone.

My friend said she couldn’t allow this, because they don’t allow children to eat and drink unsupervised for health and safety reasons (they’d also ordered the child a hot drink). The outside area is down a large set of steps so they couldn’t have seen him from the garden. The mum said he has ADHD and doesn’t like to eat outside. My friend - who also has a DS with ADHD BTW - said sorry no we can’t take the risk of him eating alone. What she didn’t say but wanted to was ‘You’d also be taking up three tables when you should only be taking up one and I shouldn’t have to turn customers away because of this’.

Anyway she dug her heels in and the mum gave in and went back outside, the 8yo had a (small) tantrum outside and played his iPad full blast for the duration of their meal (he was asked by another waitress to turn it down which he did a fraction).

When the family paid the mum said she would be posting reviews online to say that the cafe owner is ableist and wouldn’t accommodate the needs of a disabled child. My friend said nothing, and nothing has appeared as of yet online, but she’s gutted about this accusation especially with her DS having ADHD. She said she’d never let her ADHD DS eat alone because actually the risk of him being hurt would increase greatly.

AIBU to think it’s not about ableism but about health and safety? I feel really bad for her!

As a fellow café owner, I can assure you that 50% of parents aren’t remotely aware of their children’s capabilities! When in a group with friends, lots of parents pay no attention whatsoever to their children.

I think the terminology is important here - had the café really been dog friendly they could have all sat at an indoor table and the child wouldn’t have been cold! Rather than labelling it “dog friendly” it would be better having a sign saying “dogs are welcome in our garden area”. If they’d seen a sign like that they could have made a decision on whether to go elsewhere where they could be inside.

It's not about "pandering to people with faux sympathy", though

It's about remembering your customers are human too and just having a bit of understanding for their situation. It goes a long way even if the end result is exactly the same.

FWIW I don’t necessarily agree with her about the two picnic table thing. I hate tables with no backs and it’s worse being squashed on them! But I also get that in these struggling times she’s looking thinking about the potential financial loss, as with a lot of small businesses a quiet few days has a huge impact 😞

With all the debate on the friendliness or otherwise, on the dog front, I'm surprised nobody has cast doubt on the "hot drink " detail. A classic Mumsnet nugget designed to sway any reasonable poster from voting YABU. A child teetering around with a kettle on his lap. The friend was simply trying to save lives.

Who could have predicted this would have become about whether the cafe is dog friendly or not.

I wouldn't worry too much OP, if the customer writes a bad review saying your friend is ableist it will be easy for her to respond to and refute - she just has to say pleasantly that the 8 year old was not allowed to sit indoors because he was alone and unsupervised and that applies to all (eg) under 12s that visit the establishment. Any potential customer will read that and understand, it won't put them off.

The mom shouldn't be reserving 3 tables. The iPad shouldn't be blasting. But also I don't see 8yo eating alone at a cafe to be a massive problem in general but in this case if he's having tantrums he's not mature enough to be left alone.

The sign does say that!

@TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress I'm not upset at all. But thank you for your concern. 😊

What do you think my friend should have done/said then?

But you are - your posts are really angry but I can’t really understand why?

That's exactly what the sign did say, I think the OP is tired of repeating it😅

Also having worked with the public, you are being generous with your assessment of 50%!

Your friend should respond with a cheerful "Children with disabilities and neurodiversities are welcomed at X Cafe with open arms! We have children in our own family with additional needs and are more than happy to accommodate them. However, we cannot allow young children to be unsupervised in the cafe around hot drinks etc from a safety perspective."

No one reading that would think bad of the cafe, and people are more than used to people being gobshites in the reviews.

How is a dog on the floor unhygienic? Unless you routinely eat your cake off the floor...?

My friend would say the same 😂 we meet every weekend for a drink and she has told me shocking tales about children crawling under tables (tables that aren’t even theirs!), pulling the tails of random dogs then the parents get upset when the dog snaps, throwing food around and nothing is done about it etc.

If I had a cafe I’d close down in a day as I’d ban dogs AND children 😂 (joking)

I picked up on this too.

Why does it matter that they sat at two tables if they were all ordering something? If two families of three took a table each, it would be the same situation if more customers arrived. Big tables like that are for sharing.

I don't see why an adult couldn't have sat inside with the child. Or why you would even take your child to a café like that when you know he doesn't like to eat outside.

Can you tell us what your understanding of the word 'upset' is?

Because all I can see is another poster disagreeing with you.

Or are you trying to be passive aggressive?

Dear God Almighty, the lack of reading comprehension of some posters!

The very first sentence of the Op's first post right at the top of the thread says very clearly:
"My friend runs a small independent cafe that is dog friendly but the dogs have to be outdoors."

So stop derailing and READ THE BLOODY THREAD!!

I wouldn't have said anything about health and safety as (as I said earlier) it always comes across a bit "computer says no". Customers like to be made to feel important/special even if ultimately the end result is the same.

I would have just said "I'm really sorry but as he is under 13, he needs to be accompanied by one of the adults if he wants to sit inside. Do you want some help getting him settled while you sort everyone else out and I'll bring the drinks over once that's done? My boy Tommy has ADHD too so I sympathise with how difficult it can be to manage sometimes!"

Yes, the end result is the same and yes, she may well have refused to split the group up, but she would have felt heard and listened to.

No - but that poster isn’t exactly clear what they’re disagreeing with me about. At first it was that my friend incorrectly advertises her cafe, and when I’ve said she doesn’t, that poster is still arguing the toss

Yeah, they're not dog friendly. I booked a pub in my daughter's university city because it said it was dog friendly and we were travelling down to see DD and take her for lunch. It was raining. Got to the pub "Oh sorry, dogs are only allowed outside". So we had to sit under a parasol, in the rain, on a damp picnic bench.

Your friend wasn't BU by the way.

Is telling someone they aren't good at dealing with people simply "disagreeing" ?

Ok but why are you accusing them of being 'upset', just because you can't understand them?

Because it means that a family coming in would have no space and so would turn away and leave and go elsewhere. Whereas the family of six could easily have sat on one picnic bench creating room for more customers. But as I’ve said I don’t necessarily agree with her on this point as I Persia only hate being squished especially with a backless seat

As an aside, no way would I have left either of my ADHD children alone in a cafe with or without a hot drink at 8 😂😂