To think my friend was not BU in this cafe situation?

[TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress]

My friend runs a small independent cafe that is dog friendly but the dogs have to be outdoors. Over the weekend, a family of six people came in with 2 dogs and were directed outside. The tables outside are picnic benches that seat 10, inside the tables seat six (they’re all the same size). The family went outside and took 2 picnic benches. Which annoyed my friend as that’s depriving potential customers of a bench but she let it go and said nothing.

She noticed one of the children, a boy aged about 8, having a tantrum outside because he doesn’t like eating outdoors and wants to eat indoors. Next thing she knew, his mum had brought him inside and sat him at the last available table (with an iPad blasting). She asked my friend if his order could come to that table as he doesn’t like eating outside so she said he could come in and eat alone.

My friend said she couldn’t allow this, because they don’t allow children to eat and drink unsupervised for health and safety reasons (they’d also ordered the child a hot drink). The outside area is down a large set of steps so they couldn’t have seen him from the garden. The mum said he has ADHD and doesn’t like to eat outside. My friend - who also has a DS with ADHD BTW - said sorry no we can’t take the risk of him eating alone. What she didn’t say but wanted to was ‘You’d also be taking up three tables when you should only be taking up one and I shouldn’t have to turn customers away because of this’.

Anyway she dug her heels in and the mum gave in and went back outside, the 8yo had a (small) tantrum outside and played his iPad full blast for the duration of their meal (he was asked by another waitress to turn it down which he did a fraction).

When the family paid the mum said she would be posting reviews online to say that the cafe owner is ableist and wouldn’t accommodate the needs of a disabled child. My friend said nothing, and nothing has appeared as of yet online, but she’s gutted about this accusation especially with her DS having ADHD. She said she’d never let her ADHD DS eat alone because actually the risk of him being hurt would increase greatly.

AIBU to think it’s not about ableism but about health and safety? I feel really bad for her!

Me neither.

OK on a pleasant day but you can never be sure of that so I wouldn't consider it a possibility if I was out with my dogs. I would also be distinctly annoyed if I got there relying on the dog friendly description and found I was expected to sit outside unless the website makes it crystal clear that dogs are not allowed inside.

Customer of course is totally unreasonable. They should have just gone elsewhere if they didn't want to sit outside.

Doesnt sound particularly wheelchair friendly either

I can't get over the fixation of some people on a minor detail about dogs that the OP has now clarified several times. A group of 6 people and 2 dogs go to a cafe with a clear sign that says 'dogs welcome in our garden'. They choose to eat there and spread themselves over 2 tables seating 6; potentially depriving the cafe owner of another party of paying customers. Not being content with the two tables they've spread out over, they then wish to take up the remaining inside table with 1 child. The owner very reasonably explained why a child sitting alone, out of sight of its parents was not allowed. Unless there were 5 young kid sitting outside with the 2 dogs, why couldn't the child's mother (or one of the other adults) sit inside with the 8 year old? They sound like they behaved in an unacceptably entitled way throughout - taking up more tables than necessary, having an iPad playing at a loud volume and then effectivelly demanding someone else take responsibility for looking after their child.

Your friend did not behave unreasonably, OP.

I wouldn't have said anything about health and safety

@cinnamonfrenchtoast but…that’s the principle reason as to why he couldn’t sit alone.

So unless she just said “He can’t sit here but I can’t explain why” it would be really weird to not mention the health and safety aspect.

Also anyone with a scrap of a brain or care for their child and others would soon appreciate that ‘actually you’re right if he hurts himself and I’m not here that would be awful for everyone”

I would have just said "I'm really sorry but as he is under 13, he needs to be accompanied by one of the adults if he wants to sit inside. Do you want some help getting him settled while you sort everyone else out and I'll bring the drinks over once that's done? My boy Tommy has ADHD too so I sympathise with how difficult it can be to manage sometimes!"

So firstly what would you have said when they asked WHY he can’t sit alone? And my friend should never have to give personal details to random strangers about her DC.

Yes, the end result is the same and yes, she may well have refused to split the group up, but she would have felt heard and listened to.

So you think my omitting the words “for safety reasons” would have made the customer feel heard and listened to

My friends cafe doesn’t state it’s dog friendly it states dogs are welcome outside

It doesn't matter what reason she had for not allowing dogs inside. It's her cafe. It's her choice. But to describe it as dog friendly when they have to stay outside could well be what led to the issue in the first place. They looked for a dog friendly place. They thought they'd found one. Then they had to sit outside. It's not semantics when it could well be why they chose it in the first place. It's very relevant.
We like Costa. It's not dog friendly. We have to sit outside. That's fine. Because we know. We make our choice with the info we have.

Because of the tone and content of their posts makes them seem riled about something. And I still can’t figure out what it is.

What? You think a family of four (for example) would not sit at the other end of a 10-seat table just because there are, at most, three other people on in?

<Bangs head against brick wall>

I swear this is the 12th time I’ve said this.

Dog friendly was MY description. On the sign outside and on the FB page it clearly states “Dogs welcome in our garden”

Sadly we can’t edit OPs so I can’t edit it to stop people’s heads spinning at the term ‘dog friendly’

Do you mean a family coming in and sitting at the other end of a picnic table occupied by strangers?

I wouldn’t do that! I’d find somewhere else

I dislike dogs and their owners around food and so I appreciate being given the warning that they are permitted in the garden since I might choose to avoid the garden then. So I consider that compromise relatively friendly to both dog people and not dog people.

As for the group: they were noisy, demanding, and took up more space than they needed. But I think that is only to be expected in the hospitality business. A party of six with dogs will take up more space than a party of six without digs. Dogs take up space like strollers do and their owners don’t perceive that as an imposition on others because dogs are their family just as children and their strollers are family.

What if they had walked an extra mile, for example, past other cafes because your friend advertises the cafe as dog friendly. She should change the description to ‘outside only’. I know this is going off topic but as a dog owner this is a huge thing.
As for leaving the child inside your friend was absolutely right. If anything is posted she can post a non aggressive reply explaining health and safety. The mother is unlikely to post a bad review because she’ll knows she was in the wrong and won’t want to advertise the fact

Yes. Communal tables. It's what people do. Unless the café only ever gets families of 10, there will always be empty seats or smaller groups sharing.

What if they had walked an extra mile, for example, past other cafes because your friend advertises the cafe as dog friendly

@Smilencuddlesthenstab

SHE DOESN’T ADVERTISE IT AS DOG FRIENDLY.

SHE DOES ADVERTISE IT AS OUTSIDE ONLY

RTF FUCKING T

I didn’t even say in my OP that it’s advertised as dog friendly so why are people claiming she has?!

The no dogs inside wasn’t even a problem for this family 😂

I’ve very rarely seen picnic benches in independent cafes being used this way. I’d hate to sit on a table with strangers and even worse I’d hate it if strangers tried to join us!

You're completely missing the point.

I know health and safety is the reason your friend refused to let the child sit alone, but mentioning it to customers is (again) very much "computer says no" and doesn't account for any human feeling/emotion".

So firstly what would you have said when they asked WHY he can’t sit alone

You can just say it's to prevent any accidents. You don't need say "because of health and safety". It's a phrase that very quickly puts peoples' backs up - especially because a lot of health and safety is (to the general public) a load of nonsense they don't care about.

Yes, I know the end result is the same but it's about making the customer feel understood, not just about being black and white.

And my friend should never have to give personal details to random strangers about her DC.

No, of course not. But I've run my own business for years (and had years of retail management experience before that) and people respond much better to people who they see as relatable, not just corporate robots.

Of course if she's uncomfortable talking about her sons' condition that's fine - you just asked what I'd say and I told you.

Well she needs to get smaller tables outside then if she's worried about customers. Because if two couples come and take a table each, that's 16 seats being wasted.

Anyone else think OP is the 'friend'?

You can just say it's to prevent any accidents. You don't need say "because of health and safety".

She did say for safety in case of an accident - I could ever imagine being so sensitive that certain words would put my back up but different words meaning the same thing would t

I'm totally in sympathy with your friend, OP.

But I do reluctanctly agree that 'dog friendly' usually implies that dogs can come inside. I don't like them inside myself though and would look for somewhere without them - had too many conversations made inaudible by yapping!!

However, the issue of them expecting to leave a young child alone and expecting staff to supervise him is totally unacceptable.

I think your friend should have a calm and professional-sounding reply drafted ready for the hostile review - the group sound obnoxiously entitled and spiteful.

Eg: We're sorry you felt that.....blah blah etc
We were happy to accommodate your group of 6 with x no of dogs at our outside tables but could not take on the supervision of a child who wished to sit alone inside the restaurant. I'm sure you will agree that this would not be possible for our hard-working staff or sensible for the safety of your child, particularly considering that a hot drink was required.

Or something!

So not dogs then...

Agreed dog friendly means dogs allowed inside.

Anyway, your friend should reply to any negative review left with a polite rebuttal like "sorry your experience at Beans Cafe wasn't what you expected. As I explained to you on the day, children (all children, regardless of disabilities) are not allowed to eat and drink unsupervised for insurance and liability reasons. You had the option to stay inside with your son and his hot drink (and therefore taking up a third table between 6) however declined."

Businesses which respond in this way always come out looking on top. Similar happened at a pub near me. Mum posted a review saying it was advertised as "family friendly" however the owner was rude and kept telling off her children, then banished her and her mum friends outside with the kids to the garden. Owner replied explaining the mums were all "liquid lunching" on wine and letting the kids run absolutely riot. Reqiests to supervise them were ignored and they ended up causing lots of damage to plants and bushes outside, at which point he said if they didn't go outside and look after the kids the police would be called and he would be seeking charges for criminal damage. This was all posted on our local fb group and some witnesses waded in standing up for the landlord (it might have ended up on here too actually). Anyway, business picked up because this is an area FULL of yummy mummies who let their kids run amok in whatever business they go to. Everyone who is sick of noisy naughty children discovered this pub is a place it won't be tolerated so you can get a bit of peace 😉

Again, it's not about being sensitive or people being "pandered to".

Good customer service means sympathising with any predicaments people may have and making them feel heard, even if you ultimately can't solve the problem.