So is formula milk UPF?

[bumgripes]

It is, right? I mean, the ingredients list certainly is. And it’s listed on the BBC website as an UPF.

Going to be interested to see if this influences the BF/FF debate now that it looks like awareness of UPF is about to skyrocket. Does it even matter when they’re only on it for about a year? Does that fact that it’s an UPF actually add any info to the pre-existing evidence on BF/FF?

What do you think gives you or the government the right to dictate how women use their breast?

I have no skin in this game, my babies were EBF bottle refusers so I get my breastfeeding gold star. But it gives me the absolute rage when people think there is something wrong with not wanting to do so.

If it was available on prescription only, then we wouldn't be subjected to all the advertising to convince us that it's 'just as good'. And people would stop thinking of it as an option for otherwise capable mothers and babies.

If formula was only available on prescription (as if GPs don’t have enough to do) then mums would revert to using unmodified cows milk. And given that most families use semi-skimmed these days, expect to see a lot of rickety children!

That kind of argument used to be used when people were told to stop smoking in cars with children in.
'How dare the government.... etc'

People FF due to medical reasons all the time. Women who have to take medication that isn't BFing safe, women who can't produce enough milk, women who have PND or are otherwise struggling with their mental health and find the added stress and pain of trying to establish BF too much.

Of course, for many hard-line lactivists these would count as choices - just switch meds and risk a manic episode, just trust that your milk will come in before your baby starves, BFing doesn't hurt with the right latch, etc etc.

But those would be able to get it on prescription

Well that just makes you worse then.. I won't say what I really think ☺️

Like I'd care

And that's the kind of bullshit false equivalence that it deeply, deeply offensive - not that you care of course.

Feeding a baby formula is in no way comparable to subjecting them to passive smoking in a non-ventilated car, and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying so.

This thread is terrible.

Women kicking women.

Exactly. You can't compare formula to the most notorious carcinogen on the market. Disgusting.

And prescriptions are generally dispensed to the sick. A bottle fed baby is no sick.

@LuvSmallDogs I know a lot of qualified breastfeeding supporters, IBCLCs, breastfeeding councillors etc through my work. Without exception none of them give a monkeys about how a woman feeds their baby. They care that women have the information they need to make the right choice for them and their families. They care that those who want to breastfeed have the information and support they need to achieve their goals. They will support women to mix feed and be there there to wean / stop breastfeeding safely at any point.

They also believe that formula has an important role to play in infant feeding. They pretty much all feel that a formula sold at near cost price and free from branding / advertising is a great idea.

There’s also a huge difference between saying ‘just change meds’ and ‘if you want to, this group of qualified pharmacists can talk you through the evidence regarding your medication and breastfeeding.’

Their big issue is with the companies who make the formula. Those ones who prey on parents’ insecurities and fears. Those that try to convince parents that there is something wrong with their baby or that they are wrong (see recent study from the Lancet) Those that knowingly undermine those who want to breastfeed. Those that knowingly lie about what formula is actually capable of doing (for example there’s no evidence that formula helps babies sleep better)

and women who don't want to breastfeed would be forced to use their bodies against their will.

No thanks.

I'd be saying everything necessary to get it on prescription because like fuck would I be forced to breastfeed against my will.

Thankfully it is very unlikely to happen in reality.

I have battles every month to get DS tube feed properly supplied and delivered. His feed is basically a grown up ready made formula.

it would also be at massive cost to to the NHS in time alone let alone the actual cost of the feeds

If it was available on prescription only, then we wouldn't be subjected to all the advertising to convince us that it's 'just as good'. And people would stop thinking of it as an option for otherwise capable mothers and babies.

All what advertising? Its illegal to advertise formula for babies up to 6 months in the U.K.

@ErrolTheDragon you know the only reason 'follow on milk' is a thing, is so they can get around that law/regulation and advertise their product and brand.

@ErrolTheDragon ooooh there are many many loopholes that the formula companies go through. Not least the creation of follow on milk which they can advertise.

There is lots of ‘advice’ out there which really is thinly veiled advertising. Or an influencer feeding their baby and just happen to have the packet of formula in the background.

The posters on MN that comment the same three points about a particular brand on any thread about choosing formula.

this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Boots have recently got in to trouble for advertising formula for babies up to 6 months.

Why does no-one ever compare and contrast, cajole and berate, vaginal deliveries v. cesaereans. The former is "natural", arguably better for the baby, vaginal bacteria and all that jazz.

Because most people know that some women can't deliver vaginally, it might be dangerous and detrimental both in health and mental wellbeing to both baby and mother. The mother, along with advice from her physicians, gets to choose.

The same should therefore apply to the breastmilk v. ff debate. It is a complex decision making process, and the mother should get to choose, just like with her delivery options.

Boots have recently got in to trouble for advertising formula for babies up to 6 months.

Exactly. They got in trouble for it because it's not allowed. If producers and retailers are bending the law then they should be penalised.

Personally I don't see a particular issue with 'follow on milk', as an option (alternative to cows milk) from an age when babies are starting to be weaned. I'm not convinced it has much bearing on the decisions made for newborns. Maybe I'm wrong and that shouldn't be advertised either.

The posters on MN that comment the same three points about a particular brand on any thread about choosing formula.

That might be something MNHQ should look into and disallow. Do you report such posts?

There’s no issue with follow on milk as an option. But it’s an option that sold as a necessity. The adverts don’t tell you that you don’t have to swap to it or that it’s basically the same as first stage. It was only created to get around the bans.

Theres no proof that any of these posts are paid for or advertising. Regular readers though will notice just how similar they sound.

The ban really has nothing to do with individual’s choices around infant feeding. It’s to stop the companies engaging in unethical practices which ultimately harm babies and formula feeding families.

It's because its discouraging breastfeeding. Yeah don't get me wrong I imagine it's hard work and tiring doing formula. It is easier to just put baby on the boob but obstacles can get in the way. Pain. Tongue tie etc not getting the right support can be frustrating. But it is the easy way out because its not easy breastfeeding in the beginning. For some it can be hard work for months. Especially if youre pumping for not being able to latch baba. Because that does take its toll on you.

What's wrong with taking the ''easy'' way out and not wanting to pump for months and/or not wanting to be in pain and miserable?

No one ever chose to FF just because they saw an advert for Cow & Gate. Women aren't stupid, we know formula exists so I don't see the issue with allowing companies to advertise it provided it done so factually. What does discourage women from breastfeeding is lack of support and lack of information. I remember asking my HV why the antenatal class on breastfeeding didn't mention cluster-feeding, cracked nipples or latch problems despite these being common issues and instead had pushed the message of "your baby is born knowing how to breastfeed" and "it's so quick and easy". She told me that if they told everyone at the class about these issues then no one would attempt it, she didn't seem to see the irony that not knowing about these potential issues (and what to do about them) sets women up for failure. This is the sort of thing that stops women breastfeeding, not a voucher for 50p off a tin of SMA.

And of course there are women who simply don't want to breastfeed and that is also a valid choice because bodily autonomy trumps all else. The PP advocating for forced breastfeeding is mind-boggling, do they really want to live in a society where we tell women what to do with their bodies or force them to provide their body for use by another person against their own wishes. That's a slippery slope.

I BF'd for around ten years in total across four DC and I support the right of any woman to choose how she feeds her baby, for her to be provided with unbiased, judgement-free information on her choose method, and for her to go off and do that without comment or negativity from others.