‘As ye sow, so shall ye reap.’ The British Museum; the writhing …

[SurpriseSparDay]

I can’t be the only person utterly fascinated by the level of distraught handwringing disbelief the British Museum is experiencing right now.

Theft, eh?

How, pray, did this great institution acquire the artefacts contained therein? How?

Russia didn't send its armies into Germany to annexe territory. They were attacked by Germany, managed with great difficulty to defend themselves, and then needed to destroy their attackers.

When they occupied eastern Europe they were the authority. They didn't have to ask Germany for permission to take parts of east Prussia for themselves. There wasn't a German government to ask. There was no 'added bloodshed'.

India invaded Kashmir. There were reasons for that, just as there were reasons for invading the princely state of Hyderabad and deposing the Nizam. That doesn't mean that India has the right to keep Kashmir. Who now owns the diamond mines that made the Nizam of Hyderabad one of the richest men in the world? Presumably India, but that only came about by conquest.

I see China now wants its artefacts back after the thefts from the BM.
Hmm…..in the not too distant past their own leader did a pretty good job of destroying the country’s treasures - historial relics and artefacts, cultural and religious sites destroyed by Red Guards.

He didn't buy the marbles - he took them and sold them and it's highly contested whether he had permission to take them in the first place. Greece first requested their return in 1835, shortly after the Ottomans were displaced from power. Even in the 1820s, many many British experts and public figures disputed the legality of the sculptures' removal.

And Britain did a pretty good job of destroying its own heritage in the Reformation, and destroying parts of Dublin (then part of Britain) in the 1916 Rising and War of Independence.

I look forward to the UK telling China to shove it. And indeed India.

I’m sympathetic to arguments about returning artefacts in some cases but I think it does need some careful thought. Especially where we are talking about China and Chinese artefacts. It’s all very well for us to send back a few jades and vases as a gesture of goodwill but it ramps up pressure on Taiwan and the National Palace Museum. I feel quite strongly that the collections in Taipei should stay where they are.

And Britain did a pretty good job of destroying its own heritage in the Reformation, and destroying parts of Dublin (then part of Britain) in the 1916 Rising and War of Independence.

Sure, but is Britain asking for the return of British artefacts in museums overseas?

London Bridge was sold to America in 1968, dismantled, shipped and re-erected in Arizona.
Maybe we should ask for that back.

What British artefacts? I think it's why people balk at the 'British' museum being so full of material that isn't actually British.
It would be nice if they sent some of the Irish material they have back to Ireland

What British artefacts?

Works of art, paintings, furniture, sculpture etc. in museums overseas. Plenty in American museums.

The Yale Center For British Art has a bit!

Well if acquired in dodgy circumstances, yes it would seem fair enough to ask for them back

"sold"

I very much doubt it’s dodgy. But you seem to be implying there isn’t British art overseas.

unless you want to argue the people selling the bridge had no right to.

unless you want to argue the people selling the bridge had no right to.

I was being tongue in cheek serendipity.
Obviously such a sale would never be allowed now but up until the late 1970s there was scant regard in UK for built heritage. Look at all the fine buildings which have been demolished since WW2 - many country houses, Euston station, Baltic Exchange, General Post Office Manchester to name but very few.

British exceptionalism? Do other countries not have museums stuffed full of things from around the globe then?

I saw a penknife in the San Jacinto memorial museum, Houston TX, a few years ago. It had been passed over by a soldiers family after the battle.

The card underneath it conjectured that it must have belonged to an important man called "Sheffield" as that was finely engraved on the blade.

Having seen the Union Flag upside down outside Baton Rouge Museum earlier that month, I wasn't surprised.

@SerendipityJane That’s hilarious 😂

Well the City of London sold it, not some dodgy and destructive aristo going through a tricky and expensive divorce who needed cash (Elgin).

The display of materials from non-British and especially non-European cultures in British museums also leaves a lot to be desired in many cases, such as ritual objects taken from various African adventurers that are labelled completely wrongly.

If you are talking post WW2, Poland absolutely did not annex any part of Germany. After Poland, and the rest of Eastern Europe, was effectively given to Stalin, to become a soviet satellite, by Churchill and Roosevelt, at Potsdam in 1945 - and Poland had zero say in this. They were not even allowed to participate in these “negotiations”. Subsequently, as some sort of “compensation”to Poles was given - for having lost land to the east, to Stalin, they - Churchill, Stalin & Roosevelt moved Polands borders west to encompass former German lands.

In all of this Poland had no say, they were utterly powerless. Poland was doing any of the annexation.

In fact Mercedes listed this as stolen before the Falklands war, because Argentina hadn't paid them.

Why would you look forward to that? What a strange attitude, and not exactly in line with museological practice. India are planning a concerted campaign for the return of artefacts, and the BM are under huge pressure in terms of the restitution of the Benin bronzes which were stolen in 1897 - the Horniman and university museums have given their Benin material back or plan to, as have other museums worldwide. Decolonisation and deaccessioning of material forcibly taken won't go away as issues.

Not everything I say is serious. Or indeed true.