To let my dad go home at the cost of my mum's well being?

[JustAllRoundShit]

A couple of months ago my dad (mid 80s) had a stroke. He requires full time care as he is very weak, can't get up or walk or do anything else himself. He's fully there cognitively but very apathetic in the day. Just wants to sleep all the time. When he is not sleeping he is very agitated, aggressive and very quick to anger with lots of shouting.

He is currently in a rehab home kind of thing. He seems to be slightly improving there but he absolutely hates it and wants to go home. I totally understand why. He's always been very independent and also very dominating. It must be terrible for him to be so out of control and helpless, completely at the mercy of the carers. I would hate it as well.

I think we could organise staff to look after him at home. It would take a lot of planning, lots of staff, money, etc but it's doable (we are not in the UK). The problem is it will be a massive burden on my mum. Massive responsibility, massive mental strain because he keeps yelling for her (and not very nicely) and I'm worried that she'll spend the last few years of her life (she's early 80s) being stuck by his bed, caring for him and basically just getting yelled at all the time.

I don't want that for her. She's done her bit for him her entire life (he hasn't been the best husband. Good father but very dominating, borderline abusive husband). For my mum it would be much better if he was in a home. Then she would be free. But he'd absolutely hate it. He keeps crying, begging me to let him go home. I just don't know what to do.

What would you do?

Yanbu: bring him home, while trying to set up the house so that he will trouble my mum as little as possible

Yabu: let him stay in a home and give your mum peace. She's done her bit and we can't expect her to take on this burden.

Please don't do this to your Mum, it'll end up making her ill too.

@JustAllRoundShit
You are in a difficult position. It may difficult if not impossible for a 80+ year old woman who likely has not been given agency throughout her marriage to make independent decisions to be capable of making an informed decision at this age and stage of her life.

Physically, it may best for her to have him remain in the facility. Emotionally, she may be ill equipped to live alone without him.
At this stage, whatever decision is made there will probably be regrettable consequences. Your father is perhaps the one more likely to fare better regardless of what decision is made.

Wishing you strength as you navigate this difficult situation.

The fact you said that your DF would need to be sedated to be come home says it all. I imagine it is culturally your decision because you would normally be expected to assist with care. You cannot make this decision while living abroad.

Your DF clearly cannot leave without sign off from either you or your mum or it would have happened on his assistance, surely.

So the culture is that people can be drugged against their will and their adult children decide what happens to them.

Sounds great. Sarcasm.

Kind of surprised he wasn't nicer to you all, hey?

Ok so if you don't need to worry yourself about what he, as a competent adult, wants then I guess go ahead, have him sedated and admitted to a home then go back to the UK where that can't be done to you when you get old

Insistence*

If the tables were turned and your mum was the one that needed substantial care, would your dad have stepped up to provide it? Be honest.

I think she said if she asks, the doctors will sedate him to put him back in a care home, not take him home. Might have misunderstood. Either way it seemed to involve sedating him at child request rather than for any medical reason

Surely this is your mother's decision?

God forbid he have any human rights, eh?
Bloody hell, just because someone is old they don't cease to be a person.
The correct option is an honest discussion as to what's possible and fair, not riding roughshod over someone's capacitous expressed wishes. In the UK this would in fact also be AGAINST THE LAW.

Fucking horrifying, but apparently A-OK with more than a few posters around here. Until it happens to them, of course.

this is such bullshit. In your vocabulary:

Kind of surprised she isn't sentencing someone else (her mother) to rest-of-lifetime abuse.

Kind of surprised he didn't think ahead before he was abusive huh?

@PosterBoy Ultimately, if OP withdraws her right to make this decision then either medical professionals or OP's DM will need to make the call. OP clearly wants him to go home, but admits herself that he is volatile and not 100% mentally capable. She shouldn't have the power as she will bear none of the burden.

I just couldn’t do this to my mum.

Is there an opportunity for her to come and stay with you, and your father goes home and has the carers? Anywhere else she could go?

Yep, unless it’s determined that he no longer has capacity to make his own decisions this would be illegal in the UK. I’ve been caring for my mum since the onset of dementia and I can tell you that capacity is a fluid thing. As her LPA I have to make sure that she is involved as much as possible in any decision made on her behalf, and some are delayed because her capacity to understand and consent is better at certain times than others. You’re talking about depriving your dad of his liberty OP and that’s not a decision you should be allowed to make if he has the capacity to decide for himself - and you’ve certainly no right to request that he’s sedated to facilitate something he doesn’t want.

Still doesn’t make it right to force a decision on someone capable of deciding for themselves. But hey, sedate him and it’ll be easier. That’s what’s bullshit.

Even if your dad goes home, it will be a very difficult life for your mum with carers constantly coming and going. However, it could be doable if your mum is the kind of person that enjoys the daily drama of comings and goings and if she could "befriend" these carers - is that a possibility?

1. You need a formal assessment of your fathers capacity to make decisions regarding his care needs from a psycho geriatrician or medical professional.
2. You need a full assessment of what your fathers daily care needs are at present and how those would be managed at home. Would a package of care be enough to manage personal care, toileting, mobilising, managing falls and other risks?
3. If not, you need a clear picture of what your parents financial position is in order to buy in the additional care needed.
4. You need to understand there is no reality whatsoever to your mother not being involved in his care if he came home or the dynamics of probably a 50 plus year marriage changing . Your mum will be on call 24/7 for him and he will continue to be abusive.
5. Most importantly, practically every older person with care needs in a facility ‘wants to go home’. It’s literally a homing instincts humans have. You have to actually consider if he can be managed at home safely.

I couldn’t put him first if he’s been abusive.
Just because someone is old doesn’t mean they deserve to be treated well if they’ve been abusive.
My parents are assholes, if they come looking for care from me I’ll tell them where to go.
Not that your dad is this bad, but please don’t inflict this on your poor mum.

I would move him to a home and let your mother have a life, she can visit and then go home

Although he says he wants to be at home, this may not be true.. What he probably wants is to be back before he had the stroke, which isnt going to happen.
What you are seeing could be the very best of him that can be now. Being at home with care may not be medically possible. Plus, you being there to sort things out will required frequently. Otherwise your mother will be faced with hundreds of little and big decisions to deal everything and will have strangers in her house while they are both vulnerable. Home care is really hard for everyone involved and perhaps not best for the whole family.

I think we all know the answer

Op, take him home with you if you can't face putting him in a home, your mother is done and if you can't do right by her that way take the burden off her so she can enjoy her last year's without her bully around.

Your poor mother.

It is inhumane to expect your mother to live in that situation, even for a week.

I wonder if, having a "borderline abusive" father (from what you've said, it doesn't sound borderline) you've been socialised to expect the women in the family to accept abuse and sacrifice their wellbeing for the preferences of your father. I hope you can see that it isn't reasonable to sacrifice your dm in this way.

Also, your father isn't going to have "authority" being cared for in his own home. He will have to come to terms with the changes in his life.

And I think you know that your mother will not be able to ignore his bullying behaviour.

I think I would fear that her already "dominating, borderline abusive husband" would be even worse if he went home.
What he probably wants is to be back before he had the stroke, which isnt going to happen. I agree with this. And I suspect that he will take it out on your poor Mum when he discovers that it isn't going to be like that.

Have you considered other care homes? Might there be one better suited to his needs?

Not fair on your mum at all as she will be the one putting up with his abusive outbursts and it will effect her health and mental well being, she put up with it for years. Find him a good care home and it is the best place for him for his needs to be met. Your mum will not want to say put him in a care home as she will feel guilty so you have to do what is best for her as not fair on her as it is non stop caring for elderly and her own health will go down hill with lack of sleep when he is up needing care in the night time and she is too old to do this. She deserves some peace and quiet and not having to deal with him. Do not take him home for a week as he will never leave again. Then both will need to be put in a nursing home.