To let my dad go home at the cost of my mum's well being?

[JustAllRoundShit]

A couple of months ago my dad (mid 80s) had a stroke. He requires full time care as he is very weak, can't get up or walk or do anything else himself. He's fully there cognitively but very apathetic in the day. Just wants to sleep all the time. When he is not sleeping he is very agitated, aggressive and very quick to anger with lots of shouting.

He is currently in a rehab home kind of thing. He seems to be slightly improving there but he absolutely hates it and wants to go home. I totally understand why. He's always been very independent and also very dominating. It must be terrible for him to be so out of control and helpless, completely at the mercy of the carers. I would hate it as well.

I think we could organise staff to look after him at home. It would take a lot of planning, lots of staff, money, etc but it's doable (we are not in the UK). The problem is it will be a massive burden on my mum. Massive responsibility, massive mental strain because he keeps yelling for her (and not very nicely) and I'm worried that she'll spend the last few years of her life (she's early 80s) being stuck by his bed, caring for him and basically just getting yelled at all the time.

I don't want that for her. She's done her bit for him her entire life (he hasn't been the best husband. Good father but very dominating, borderline abusive husband). For my mum it would be much better if he was in a home. Then she would be free. But he'd absolutely hate it. He keeps crying, begging me to let him go home. I just don't know what to do.

What would you do?

Yanbu: bring him home, while trying to set up the house so that he will trouble my mum as little as possible

Yabu: let him stay in a home and give your mum peace. She's done her bit and we can't expect her to take on this burden.

My Dad had a stroke 18 months ago and it’s massively changed both my Dad and Mums life. My Mum has become my Dads full time career and it’s so, so difficult for her. She’s mentally and physically drained and both my parents are in their 60s. I honestly don’t know how she is doing it if I’m honest and I can’t see her doing it for years to come. It’s so hard OP but I think at that age there really isn’t another option and if something was to happen to your Mum then what?! I hope you can come to an agreement that suits everyone.

You continue to focus on your father's needs.

When it's actually your MUM'S needs you should be focusing on

Poor mum and poor dad. I personally hope I can access medically assisted euthenasia for MYSELF in this lifetime than face this predicament

Sounds like he needs to stay where he is. If there's no hope of improving he'll get worse.

He can’t go home without a care plan. Whether a home or his actual home you need this and it needs to specify his needs, so that provisions are made before he gets home. He may need an OT to assess his home and fit grab handles etc.

Theres no border line. He is abusive. And if he stays in a home that's on him.

It might not be called abusive in your culture but it clearly is.

Your GP, who knows him personally and professionally, said it was too much. Your mum said it was too much.

Why aren't you listening to them?

does your dad jointly own the house? Does he have capacity to make the decision about where he lives? If the answer to both is yes then ultimately it’s not urs or urs moms decisions it’s his!

Do not bring him home. You owe him no such thing. He is an adult and he will have to get used to his changed circumstances.

You are not respecting either your mum or your dad here. You're putting your needs ahead of theirs.

Your mum needs independence and to be able to call her home her own private space, not Grand Central Station with carers and therapists coming and going constantly.

Your dad needs round the clock care in a facility designed for that which offers him the staff he needs, and offers your poor mum some respite from a man who sounds very much like a tyrant.

YYY to those questions.

OP your instincts here are those of a person who has been conditioned by a bully.

It’s really upsetting me, it’s clear this poor woman can’t even rely on her own daughter to protect her from abuse.

Nope. Your mum has obviously not had the best life with him. I’d be buggered if I’d be putting that on my mum at that age! If he goes home, even for a trial period, he will end up staying at home. The only reason he’s pissed is because he no longer has anyone (I.e. your mum) to dominate and control. He stays where he is.

Completely understand your view but it's not your decision. If he owns the house and has capacity then it is ultimately his decision. What I would be concerned about is domestic abuse toward your DM. If he has a social worker involved make sure you share your concerns so they can explore this when it comes to discharge. It does sound like your DF was always this way but bear in mind a stroke can impact on cognition, emotional regulation, impulse control and can cause depression.

Would it be possible to have your father move back to his home with caregivers and have your Mum come live with you?

Don’t do it. It will destroy your mum. I was in a similar situation, having to watch my elderly mum trying to accommodate her physically disabled (but mentally sharp) husband at home after he suffered a stroke. It absolutely destroyed her. I wish I had done more and had put my foot down and put him in a home but like you, I was living overseas and my father had a strong personality, and insisted on stayed at home. He has now passed away but it was several years of misery and stress for my mum and she will never recover from it. Just don’t do it.

Do your parents have a spare room and if so are they in a position to have live in carers ? I used to be a live in carer here in the Uk. I also did housework and cooked meals. This arrangement would also support your mum greatly. I worked for a company in London so I don’t know if this would be possible for you but I’ve seen it work very well for couples. I worked a two weeks on and two weeks off rota with another carer staying on opposite weeks. In some placements we doubled up where we needed two carers. Maybe something you could look into. I understand it’s not an easy decision and puts you in a terrible position. I wish you all well 💐

OP while you say your mum could just visit his room for a couple of hours if he was at home like she would if he was in a home, do you think that’s all she would do? If she heard him shouting, is she going to be able to ignore him? If your dad knows your mum is in the same house as he is, then surely he would call for her. Is he going to be stuck in a room all day with the same face (except when your mother pops her head in)? Would he brought down to the communal area in a home where there are other people around?

I don’t envy you OP, this is an awful decision to make. Based on what you’ve said regarding your fathers treatment of your mother, I would be more inclined to let her have a break and keep him in the home until he makes further improvements.

I think without sounding harsh you had already made up your mind to take your dad home. It’s obvious in your updates that is what you are 100 percent going to do, so I’m unsure why you even asked?

OP I do feel for you and totally understand what difficult situation you have.

I had very similar situation, where my mother had brain aneurysm and was in critical condition. When she recovered she required 24hrs care. My parents lived outside the UK whereas I lived in the UK.

I witnessed also my mum looking after her mother and the toll it took on her, her marriage, her relationship with her sister.

One thing I would suggest is to consider that your mum's house will be a home for a dad but it will also be a place where lots of people will go through. Would she be comfortable for them to use facilities, use her kitchen, put things in different places. It may sound trivial but it can be really challenging. Not everyone would be comfortable with it, especially elderly person. In the end of the day she will need to accommodate them, possibly deal with turnover of people because carers will change/ leave etc.

Another thing is that she will somehow need to navigate carer's absence - that will happen, they will leave/ move on/ be sick. Would she need to fill in the gaps?

You are right saying that your dad my do things out of helplessness, frustration, anger, medication - that can be emotional rollercoaster for him and anyone around him.

It is very difficult decision and there is no right or wrong.

In the end of the day, if the home option with your mum would not work out would you or your mum have courage to move your dad back to rehabilitation center? Would your mum even be able to admit that it is too much for her?

As for your dad it will be challenging, frustrating and at times disappointing journey no matter what you decide.

sending love

You would be putting your mums health and wellbeing at serious risk both physically and mentally if he was home. It’s very rare to get a really good home care package with excellent carers who could provide full support for both your parents and as others have said they will provide the minimum , the rest will be down to your mum to manage. The elderly can be very proud and don’t like to ask for support. Sometimes you need to do what’s in their best interests , no one can fault you for that !

Trust me. He's better off there with proper full time care. Your mum is in no position to help him and being at home he will not have immediate access to certain facilities and medical staff.

This 👏🏼 👏🏼

At the end of the day this is about your dad’s quality of life vs your mum’s quality of life.

I believe it’s time for your mum to enjoy her last years now, while she is still physically able to.

Have you looked into the costs of 24hour care at home? MIL had 4 care visits a day, we costed against a care home - by the time you go above it becomes vastly more costly in comparison with a home, without the security of 24hr considering overnight care needs, toileting needs, fall risks etc.

MIL looked after her DH for a short period as he was desperate to be at home (he was terminal so only a few months) even with carers in place it broke her & had a long term detrimental effect on her own health. Can't imagine how she would have been if it was for any longer.
My DH found a great deal fell upon him, as he tried to ease the burden on his mum.
You need to be an advocate not just for your dad but also for her which isn't easy, sorry you're having to go through this. We also did it from a long distance so fully appreciate your position.

sorry but as a retired nurse I would beg you not to do that to your mum. It is so difficult even with 2 or 3 nurses looking after the physical as well as the mental needs of stroke patients, they get really upset and take it out on the person nearest to them. I have witnessed patients biting the nursing sister, throwing cups of tea at nurses, everything like that. they get so frustrated. her mental health and physical well being will really suffer if she is given this task. it would be easier for all concerned if he was to be in a home. pray that you take some good advice. xx

OP, what's the backup plan if he goes back to live with your mum, and caring for him hastens her death? As is very, very likely?

Surely he'll have to go back to the care home, but this time as a bereaved widower, who doesn't get visits from his wife. The care home will be worse than it would be now.

Ultimately, this is a poorer outcome for him.

So your mum has said that due to the level of care he needs he should stay in the home. Decision made.

Please listen to her OP. It is horrific to those of us looking at this objectively to consider imposing 24/7 shouting and other unpleasantness on your mum in her own home, where she should feel safe, against her wishes and knowing its bad for her wellbeing.

I know you want to make everything better for both of them, but sadly that's not possible.

My, non abusive grandparent was the same. Unhappy in his care home and wanted to go home. But the home he wanted was that of 30 years ago filled with family and with all his faculties. Not possible and actually when we were not there to remind him he was relatively happy there once settled in.