To let my dad go home at the cost of my mum's well being?

[JustAllRoundShit]

A couple of months ago my dad (mid 80s) had a stroke. He requires full time care as he is very weak, can't get up or walk or do anything else himself. He's fully there cognitively but very apathetic in the day. Just wants to sleep all the time. When he is not sleeping he is very agitated, aggressive and very quick to anger with lots of shouting.

He is currently in a rehab home kind of thing. He seems to be slightly improving there but he absolutely hates it and wants to go home. I totally understand why. He's always been very independent and also very dominating. It must be terrible for him to be so out of control and helpless, completely at the mercy of the carers. I would hate it as well.

I think we could organise staff to look after him at home. It would take a lot of planning, lots of staff, money, etc but it's doable (we are not in the UK). The problem is it will be a massive burden on my mum. Massive responsibility, massive mental strain because he keeps yelling for her (and not very nicely) and I'm worried that she'll spend the last few years of her life (she's early 80s) being stuck by his bed, caring for him and basically just getting yelled at all the time.

I don't want that for her. She's done her bit for him her entire life (he hasn't been the best husband. Good father but very dominating, borderline abusive husband). For my mum it would be much better if he was in a home. Then she would be free. But he'd absolutely hate it. He keeps crying, begging me to let him go home. I just don't know what to do.

What would you do?

Yanbu: bring him home, while trying to set up the house so that he will trouble my mum as little as possible

Yabu: let him stay in a home and give your mum peace. She's done her bit and we can't expect her to take on this burden.

Wanting to go home isn't necessarily indicative of capacity. Two of DP's grandparents both did that - but they also wanted to go home when they were home - and my GF asked his wife (by name) to take him home, only it wasn't her, it was his daughter from his 2nd wife; he couldn't remember the second wife (who had died 15 years before) at all and the first had died over 50 years previously.

Many elderly or sick people have that massive yearning to be 'home', but it can be a desire to be in a safe place from their childhood, away from their distress from confusion, brain injury or a vague, unconscious sense that they are approaching end of life.

This is entirely separate from your mother's right not to be subjected to abuse, caring demands and the possibility of having to endure further deterioration in your father's physical and mental state and potentially further strokes in her presence. I've been around somebody as they had a fatal second stroke - it isn't a pleasant experience to witness, never mind endure whilst not even being able to receive immediate medical attention to ease the way.

Does your mother deserve, can she develop a thick enough skin to cope with him, mid-rage, having a second stroke and watching the light go out in his eyes without being traumatised, feeling guilty, having the image reply in her mind for her remaining days? Somehow, I doubt it.

I've had a stroke.

What I thought I wanted (especially in the 12 months immediately after the stroke) and what was actually best for all involved were very different things.

I don't want to go into detail but I can emphatically say please please please leave him where he is.

Thank you for that brave post Dutch1e - I hope it will help the OP to make the right decision.

So the medically qualified person closest to both your parents thinks your mum will not be able to cope? Your mum is asking you to decide, possibly in the hope you will make the decision for residential care and save her the burden?

A trial won't work with a man who has decades of having been the dominating partner. Your mum will end up being pushed into saying she wants him home, and how, physically would you force him back to the facility?

Is a six month review and option? If the rehab facility thinks he can improve, give it six months and review the improvements. If he really can improve he may improve in temper as well (but unlikely from the sound of it) or he may have adapted to supported living.

It really isn’t - at least not in the UK. You need an LPA to be able to advocate even for next of kin and without one you can’t legally make a decision like this if it’s not what he wants. If he hasn’t lost capacity to make decisions for himself then his wishes have to be considered. And this poster is right - in the event that he has lost capacity and there is no LPA in place, social services can apply for guardianship if no-one in the family wants to do it, and they will make the decision with the family’s involvement. In the event that he still has capacity what it comes down to is whether he would be a danger to himself or anyone else if he had care at home. It also sounds as though his needs are too great for home care, so he needs to be counselled to that effect.

Also I agree its not fair on him to suggest realistic prospect of returning home when its not really likely to work.

YABU- you poor mum. We had someone like him in my extended family.

Started off abusive- yelling at people randomly, terrorising his family, then as he got older he started off feeling sorry for himself.

Everyone pondered to him and his wife got totally left behind.

Absolutely this.

I cannot get my head around the OP seeing her father and her parents marriage so clearly, yet still feeling conflicted regarding protecting a woman who has suffered boderline abuse for decades.

I’m a part time carer and I’m begging you to leave your dad in a home.
If it were the other way round, would your dad be there for your mum? I doubt it by the sounds of him.
He will need a lot of rehab and care and he is never going to be the man he was physically and sadly, his mentality will be affected pretty quickly too. Alzheimer’s/ dementia is a well known side effect of any type of brain injury and also when physical capability is removed or hindered.
If he truly loves your mum then he would set her free.
She will still visit every day and he will receive the care he needs. All elderly people want to go home & it’s utterly heartbreaking 💔

I just wrote a long post explaining my parents patriarchal culture and how my parents aren't atypical for their generation. In our culture my dad wouldn't be considered borderline abusive. On the contrary. That's my view seen through my values but then at the end of the day for my mum of course it doesn't matter if it's cultural or something else. I have always wanted better for her. I have wanted her to he free. But then I pressed back by mistake and lost the post. Anyway, I don't really want to get into it. I just wanted to explain that it's not black and white and why it's such a difficult situation. The aggressiveness, yelling and shouting for my mum is partly due to the damage his brain sustained, partly because of the extremely strong medication he is on and partly because he's scared, helpless and in pain. He's not a saint and never has been but I'm not sure if anyone deserves this.

I wish I could stay here and look after him but I don't live here and he's too ill to travel back with me and I have small children. Yes, it's difficult to believe if you live in the UK but we can get 24h care (two or more carers covering 24h) and they are decent. We have had it before. We can just about afford it. The carers and various therapists, etc are roughly the same cost as the home.

The doctors that are independent of the facility he's staying in have said he would be better off at home. His GP (who is related to us) said it would be too much for my mum. And it would be but maybe there is a way to do this without it being a burden on her. I don't know.

Of course I've asked my mum what she wants. She wants my dad to be the way he was before his stroke. He took care of everything and it will be hard for her as well to suddenly manage on her own. If he needs this level of care she wants him to be in a home.

If you don't agree with patriarchal society you were raised in, why are you appeasing him? Your mom doesn't want him home. Shouldn't that be the end of the discussion? She told you it's too much. Why aren't you listening to her? Sounds like no one listens to the poor woman.

You keep saying You owe it to him to try but it won't be you. Your mum has got to name the decision. She needs to talk to the professionals caring fir him about it and make her own mind up. I have been in a similar situation and your feelings about what should happen don't come into it if you're not there. Hard I know but your mum matters too and won't be able to care for him for more than a year or so I would think.

So you actually don't want better for your mum? Just your dad deserves what he wants but at the expense of your mum? You won't be the one there making sure he's cared for and your mum will be picking up the slack and emotional distress.
Your own relative who is a doctor said it's too much, your mum has more or less said it's too much but still you are pushing him home??
The way you are coming across I very much doubt your mum can be really honest with you that it's best he stay in a home. I think it's really selfish you push this when you aren't there to support her

Agree @Gcsunnyside23 it's quite sad, but I wonder if that's been the dynamic in the family. DF gets what he wants including being aggressive, DM has to put up, shut up and not cause a fuss..

Agreed.

The OP is a misogynist.

Her mothers long hard life needs to continue to be sacrificed at the alter of whatever is best for her father.

Your poor mother.
Surrounded by family who couldn't care less for her.

Whatever culture you come from, it has done a great job on perpetuating the idea that womens lives don't matter beyond their life long sacrifice to men, when even daughters are prepared to throw their own mothers under a bus.

Your poor mother. What a life.

OP, I am just going to send you my love and support. This is so hard for you all. If I were in your shoes I would leave Dad where he is. Your Mum will need support from a distance with this change, which is slightly easier all round than the support needed from a distance if he comes home. I wish you well.

Your thread title says it all OP 'at the expense of my mum's wellbeing' so you clearly know that's what bringing him home will mean, however much you try to convince yourself you can mitigate it. Even in the unlikely event that your plan for her to just spend an hour or two with him works do you really think she won't feel the mental weight of him being in the house, or that he will be satisfied with carers and not be constantly calling her and making her feel guilty for not being around more?

I don't understand why you think your mum hasn't said what she wants, or why you think she wants you to decide when you've said yourself she wants him in a home if he needs that level of care, which he does.

I don't understand why you think your mum hasn't said what she wants, or why you think she wants you to decide when you've said yourself she wants him in a home if he needs that level of care, which he does.

This. Can you just do what is best FOR YOUR MUM?

After a lifetime of sacrifice and abuse....... surely this is what she deserves?

Wish I had thought to just say this.

Very good point.

@Crucible Thank you!!

She won't decide because she doesn't want to do it. Care for him I mean.

She's done enough!

Put him in a home, best thing I did for my parents

I went through a very similar thing with my parents when they were elderly OP. My DF had been in hospital for several months after an accident. He was desperate to come home, and conned the nursing staff into believing he could do stuff that he actually couldn't. He'd only been home a couple of days, when he'd reduced my poor DM to tears, shouting and yelling at her, because he was so frustrated and expected her to do things for him, that she couldn't. In the end I travelled 100 miles to see them, had a chat with them both, and came to the conclusion that the best thing was for DF to go into a different type of care. I spent hours at the GP's trying to organise it all, and eventually went back and told them what I'd arranged. At that point, my DF begged me not to send him away again, it broke my heart seeing him in tears like that, and DM's too. So we cancelled the arrangements, and DM said she'd manage somehow as long as he was more patient with her. The next morning, I had a call from DM to say that DF had been taken back into hospital, where he ultimately died. It's SUCH a difficult decision to make, but I think if your DF is so desperate to come home, then I'd be inclined to do what you've suggested, and give it a try for a week, to see if it can work. I wish you all the best at this awful time, as I know how hard it is.

Can he come home with the 24 hour care, and your mum come to visit you for a few weeks? Given that the idea is she is not to take on the care herself. She could visit him. If he doesn’t improve at home then maybe the rehab is the better option

Of course I've asked my mum what she wants. She wants my dad to be the way he was before his stroke. He took care of everything and it will be hard for her as well to suddenly manage on her own. If he needs this level of care she wants him to be in a home.

There's your answer. She can't have him back the way he was before so he should go into a home.

She has to cope with managing everything on her own. It will break her to deal with that and living with an aggressive abusive man (whatever the reason for his behaviour).

I do feel for you - it's an impossible situation. There is no perfect solution so you need to choose the least bad.

Appreciate your dilemma! My parents had a very happy marriage, but dad developed Alzheimer's and became very very difficult, affecting mums mental and physical health, and mine! He was admitted to hospital with breathing difficulties, and within days they wanted to discharge him, with oxygen. I had to put my foot down, social worker agreed that even if I had moved in with them it would have been a nightmare. He had become aggressive and abusive. Sadly, he passed away before we could find a suitable nursing home. On the reverse, we insisted that my husband's mum went into a home as her husband was so awful!