To think that it’s ridiculous to offer prisoners ‘incentives’ for attending verdict/sentencing hearings - it’s connected to Lucy Letby.

[pam290358]

Just heard on the news that Lucy Letby has again refused to attend court - this time for sentencing today. There are now calls for tougher sentences for those who won’t attend court, but an ‘expert’ on the BBC is of the opinion that that won’t work for people already facing long sentences/whole life terms. The alternative view is that they should be offered ‘incentives’ to do so, such as privileges in prison or live streaming the proceedings from their cell.

I’m not an advocate of dragging them kicking and screaming into the dock because I don’t think it benefits anyone - least of all the victims’ families who are already traumatised enough, but I must admit to being strongly against offering incentives for something I feel should be mandatory anyway. What do others think ?

But that’s not the point. It’s about the victims’ families having their say and delivering the impact statements face to face. It’s not the remorse of the guilty that matters, it’s the closure for the innocent.

No, that is not what happens. People need to let go of this as it’s totally untrue.

But it is true?

But not for life sentences with minimum term

More severe than 7 whole life sentences ?

This place really has shown the worst side of human nature this week
And I'm not just talking about the convicted murderer

Who cares? She’ll never be free again, and the extra hassle and expense of protecting her from the hoards baying for her blood has been spared.

There was a case in the US where a prisoner was laughing and jeering during the impact statement. The judge warned him once and when he continued the judge had him bound to the chair and gagged. Not ideal, but it’s a simple solution.

So many people want to cause someone harm on the back of them causing someone else harm. What is hurting them going to do other than for the pleasure of others? You can’t punish a pedophile for being a pedophile it’s the same here. You’re no better than them

I don't think people are understanding what a victim impact statement is for

It's got the judge....for victims/families to explain the impact on them

It's not for the defendant

You want people bound and gagged?

Mercifully the legal system in this country is about justice not vengeance.

Victim impact statement isn’t supposed to be for the benefit of the perpetrator, it’s used to highlight the impact to the judge so that it can be taken into consideration when sentencing.

as others have said, the punishment is the prison sentence, she hasn’t gotten away with anything just because she didn’t go to court. I am heartbroken for the family members of those babies, the reality is that LL being in that court is unlikely to bring any comfort or ease their pain in any way.

No better than them?

You can't punisher a kidnapper by... oh wait. Maybe just let him go free because it's vindictive to keep him in prison?

But that’s not the point. It’s about the victims’ families having their say and delivering the impact statements face to face. It’s not the remorse of the guilty that matters, it’s the closure for the innocent.

Firstly, that clearly is part of the point, as people keep making remarks like 'She needs to be made to face up to what she's done, in person, face to face.'

Secondly, do you actually know that all the victims' parents want to see her?

It seems to me that members of the public often experience these kinds of tragic events as a kind of cathartic way of venting their outrage about all that's bad in the world, and somehow take it for granted that their feelings mirror the actual feelings of victims (or indeed the perpetrators, when talking about how they'd feel in court or seeing their parents witnessing their guilt etc).

I wouldn’t disagree at all with that. I remember seeing a video uploaded to YouTube where the man convicted of raping and killing a teenager leered at her mother and made disgusting gestures while the family were delivering impact statements. He was jumped on by the court officers, but the damage was done. The reply I made was in response to the comments that forcing attendance in court was to please stupid people with a mob mentality. I don’t think that’s what’s at play here. It’s more about closure for the families.

There really isn't any justice though in a case like this is there? She is held cooped up for life at our expense? That's not justice unless it involves her being frightened on a daily basis of what will happen to her at any time of the day or night. I pity those poor staff who have to look at her and interact with her.

It depends how you define justice
Our legal system works on the basis that depriving people of their liberty is the punishment
Its not about appealing to the baying mob

I think that when any prisoner refuses to go to court or leave their cell for some reason, and extra 6 months should be added to their sentence, or they could be kept in their cell 24/7, in isolation. Human rights, my arse.

Prisons don't have the power to add to sentences....why do people keep trotting that out like it's the prisons fault!?

That’s not what I said. I was quoting something that happened in the USA. And it wasn’t as a matter of course. It was in response to the defendant’s refusal to keep quiet during the impact statements. It’s not ideal, but it’s a simpler solution than dragging someone in tied to a wheel or bound to a wheelchair, as has been suggested upthread.

People certainly hold different views on this from baying mobs to liberal soft touch lefties.

I don't think criminals should be forced to attend. It can go wrong too easily.
Victim statements are really important and it's good that they are given the prominence that they deserve.

In cases where prisoners are detained for public protection, the sentence is indeterminate and the parole board can decide when/whether release is appropriate - possibly that’s where the confusion lies.

Who gets human rights then? Where are you drawing the line? Are her parents allowed them?

What about other convicted criminals, what’s your threshold? Just remove rights from murderers? Or rapists too?

"Not ideal but a simple solution"
your words

How do you add 6 months to 7 whole life sentences ? In some cases it doesn’t work as a deterrent.