To think that it’s ridiculous to offer prisoners ‘incentives’ for attending verdict/sentencing hearings - it’s connected to Lucy Letby.

[pam290358]

Just heard on the news that Lucy Letby has again refused to attend court - this time for sentencing today. There are now calls for tougher sentences for those who won’t attend court, but an ‘expert’ on the BBC is of the opinion that that won’t work for people already facing long sentences/whole life terms. The alternative view is that they should be offered ‘incentives’ to do so, such as privileges in prison or live streaming the proceedings from their cell.

I’m not an advocate of dragging them kicking and screaming into the dock because I don’t think it benefits anyone - least of all the victims’ families who are already traumatised enough, but I must admit to being strongly against offering incentives for something I feel should be mandatory anyway. What do others think ?

@WILTYjim

No. I don't think half the people on this thread have half a clue about prison life!

Live streamed indeed!

If the current rules/law whatever state the prisoner does not need to attend, campaign for a law change but be careful what you wish for. As others have said, a smirking killer won't help grieving victims. I totally agree incentives are a bad idea, even withdrawing privileges as it smacks of coercion.

In America TJ Lane wore a T-shirt that said 'Killer' for his sentencing. Just like he did when he was killing people.

He also stuck his finger up at the parents of the children he murdered whilst they read their victim impact statements, laughed at them and swore at them.

It doesn’t always work that way though. I work in a prison as part of the Offender Management Unit. Part of my job is to sit in on parole hearings. A few months ago I was part of a hearing where the victim’s family had made an impact statement. Apparently after sentencing, the offender had winked at the victim’s mother. It was distressing enough that she was still traumatised by it over a decade later.

I understands victims’ desire to look the offender in the face and let them know the pain they’ve caused. But there’s a very real risk that that person won’t react the way they want/hope. In those instances, it can heap even more pain and suffering on to people already going through the unimaginable.

Mental illness is no excuse for such a level of cold premeditated callous evil murder.
By the age of 8 we have mostly reached the age of reason and know the difference between right and wrong.
I have suffered from mental health issues and still do.
I always try to do my very best as a Dad to do the right thing, work to support my children to show a good example to them no matter how hard it is even though it was best we separated. It was my fault and my choice to be a coward and not seek help for issues created in my childhood so mental illness:

It cannot and should not be a blanket umbrella excuse to excuse heinous crimes and should not be used as such.
If I did something wrong it would be my own choice to do so and my own responsibility to own up to it and face the consequences I know that.

It's the modern equivalent of public hanging.

Currently reading A N Wilson's biography and he writes about the psychopathic headmaster's wife who found out about boys' weaknesses and then enjoyed watching them suffer. Impact statements have an effect on people who are normally decent but kill people through dangerous driving or if off their heads on drugs or alcohol. They won't affect people who enjoyed killing and enjoyed causing suffering. They may even enjoy it. Do people want to read victim statements to perpetrators yawning or eye rolling? I don't see the point with serial killers. It's just melodrama for the sake of melodrama

Agree.
My person who's harassing doesn't care a jot about how he makes me feel.
I don't a killer would

You missed out the part where he told the families of his victims that the hands that killed their children now masturbated to their dead bodies. I’m sure that gave the families a lot of comfort.

I just think it's very naïve to think that a hardened or psychotic killer is going to feel the shame and remorse you want them to feel if they are made to attend. Just because you'd feel shame at having done something terrible, it doesn't mean they do.

If ever there was a case for cruel and unusual punishments, this is it.

I would be moving her from prison to prison for quite some time years that would put a stop to Mummy and Daddy’s gallop.

It's also ridiculous to shave off half the sentence for good behaviour in prison but hey ho that's what happens.

What does this mean? Are the parents criminals too? This thread is vile.

No, that is not what happens. People need to let go of this as it’s totally untrue.

it is, isn’t it? There are some posters on here who confuse justice and vengeance, and have a very unpleasant side to their character.

I'm actually quite surprised that a prisoner can refuse to attend court for sentencing.

At the very least there should be a video link to where they're being held so they have to hear the victim impact statements and the judge's sentence.

I can see that sometimes it might turn into a circus so there might be grounds not have to them there in person.

She's never getting out of prison- she has not incentive to attend. In the case of long sentences no one does.

It means that those poor parents were denied victim statements and the justice of seeing her sentenced.

I am all for parental support, but they are blinkered in their support of LL and maybe some disruption to their lives might give them cause to reflect.

Not particularly well put last night, but there you go.

Fucking hell. You need therapy or something.

Agree. Couldn't understand what the comments about the parents were about. Doesn't mean they're horrible people even if she is

Why such hate for her parents?

Totally baffling

But the families should still have an opportunity to speak and be heard ?

She’s still their daughter and it’s going to take time and possibly therapy for them to process the horrendous acts she’s committed, and come to terms with it. And LL is still protesting her innocence, which won’t help her parents who must desperately want to believe that despite all the evidence to the contrary. They must be absolutely reeling and you want their lives disrupted as punishment ? Punishment for what ?

What on earth do you mean ?