To think that it’s ridiculous to offer prisoners ‘incentives’ for attending verdict/sentencing hearings - it’s connected to Lucy Letby.

[pam290358]

Just heard on the news that Lucy Letby has again refused to attend court - this time for sentencing today. There are now calls for tougher sentences for those who won’t attend court, but an ‘expert’ on the BBC is of the opinion that that won’t work for people already facing long sentences/whole life terms. The alternative view is that they should be offered ‘incentives’ to do so, such as privileges in prison or live streaming the proceedings from their cell.

I’m not an advocate of dragging them kicking and screaming into the dock because I don’t think it benefits anyone - least of all the victims’ families who are already traumatised enough, but I must admit to being strongly against offering incentives for something I feel should be mandatory anyway. What do others think ?

How about going the other way and giving them a more severe penalty for failing to attend? Sounds good to me - a penalty for being a twisted f* who can't walk the walk.

I would drag them kicking and screaming. I don't think they should be able to opt out.

On the surface I like the idea of penalties for refusing to attend sentencing. But in reality what penalties will work? Adding time to sentences - pretty pointless when they are already looking at a 30+ year sentence.

Removing privileges for sentencing refusals also sounds good but the reason prisoners have privileges is to help prisons manage the behaviour of inmates, so if you take away privileges at the start of the sentence you are making that job much harder for the prison staff. I'm not sure that is helpful in the long run.

And then how will they behave in court? They'll turn up kicking and screaming, refuse to cooperate, and get sent back down to the cells.

I was surprised to see that they have forced her to attend court so the prison service can’t be blamed for not getting her there but they can’t be forced to bring her up. The arguments about not being fair on the staff etc don’t hold true if they have already forced her to get in the van surely?

But if it’s a long sentence/whole life sentence that’s not going to make any difference - that was the point.

And no doubt cause more trauma for the victims in the process.

I highly doubt she will ever be released so it’s not like she would get a longer/ shorter sentence for attending or not. Honestly I don’t know why any of them need to be in the dock for sentencing. They can all stay in prison and just be given a copy of judges statement and sentence and talked through it by their solicitor if necessary.

What difference does it make if she doesn't attend? It's not like she's not going to find out her sentence. Just don't understand this mob mentality of everyone needing to see it

Less privileges.

To please stupid people

I think air it into her cell if you really want her to hear it. I actually don't think it helps anyone for her to hear victim impact statements. Seems like she was already getting quite a kick out of checking up on the parents via facebook to enjoy the grief she'd caused. I wouldn't be handing her any more material.

I’d certainly be in favour of forcing her to listen to the proceedings via a live link. She could screw up her eyes but she would be hard pressed not to hear it if handcuffed and in a situation where self harm was impossible.

For who's benefit? Reminds me of Victorian hangings being a family day. Just goes to show how the majority of humans enjoy an element of depravity and pain.

If it was my child I'd dream about injecting her with air auntie her diaphragm exploited and I would imagine I'd enjoy doing that her.

But it's not my child so I'd get no kick out seeing her terror. Because I don't have those urges to strangers.

I just think basically let's not go there, what next? Stoning her to death? Lots of people would happily do that to her if you said they could in hour.

Just about sums us as a species up

I think in the case of heinous crimes that kill/cause lasting hurt, then I don’t want to hear their names or see their photos staring out at me on the newspaper, internet or to.
Let’s just lock them up and not give them any notoriety at all, let them as a person be forgotten by decent people. Let’s do all that is possible to support the victims, prevent this type of crime happening again, and do all that society can to help those affected, but let’s not give the perpetrators any more publicity. Let’s call the perpetrator “the convicted murderer” or “the criminal” and not dignify them by using a name, they don’t deserve to be remembered.

I’m very torn, having the victim statements is very powerful and should be heard. But if she did take perverse pleasure then hearing those statements may only increase the pleasure?
I think forcing/coercing defendants to appear is a useless tool.
As for hearing her sentence, she knows it. As her defence said, as she maintains her innocence they are unable to enter any mitigating factors to reduce the sentence.

I think the point is that families often find some form of closure in seeing the accused sentenced and the offender having to listen to the victim impact statement.

Personally I could see e.g. a year on basic with no ability to obtain priviliges and/or no visitation rights for a set period being a good deterrent.

I’m very torn, having the victim statements is very powerful and should be heard. But if she did take perverse pleasure then hearing those statements may only increase the pleasure?

And what if she starts laughing during the victim statement or taunting the parents. Yelling about what she did to their baby and other horrific stuff

I don't see anything that could be gained by this but plenty of risk in coercing a reluctant and possibly mentally unwell prisoner into court who has nothing really to lose anymore and giving them a very public platform to disrupt proceedings.

Jesus I did not even think of them laughing… yes I absolutely think if a convicted person does not want to be present then although the family may feel robbed/disrespected it’s surely better than any sort of disruption, making it all about the convict than the family/victim.

Thing is though it wouldn't be you, would it?

It'd be someone just trying to get their days work done who has to put themselves in physical danger to make this happen.

I couldn't give a shit. The sentence is the important thing, not whether the person stands there while it is passed down.

I think the desire to "see someone's face" when sentenced is a reflection of the more unpleasant side of human nature and should not be pandered to by the courts. The punishment is the prison sentence. If part of the punishment is to make someone cry then then that should be an official part of the sentence and they can be publicly flogged if they don't pull a compulsory sad face and start crying when given their sentence.
It's nasty,

I agree that if you are a psychopath then hearing how much your actions have upset someone will make you happy not sad. She maybe didn't like the parents anyway. Who knows. Serial killers don't have normal emotional responses

Some of us value the safety and welfare of custody staff.

I’m neither stupid nor have a mob mentality thanks !! Did you stop to think that appearance in court is to allow those whose lives have been devastated to make victim impact statements face to face ? That’s why criminals don’t want to attend court - so they don’t have to look at what they’ve done. Grow up.