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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think British maternity care must be among the worst in the developed world?

628 replies

ForestGoblin · 18/08/2023 08:14

Nurses refusing to watch newborns when a mum needs to poo??? Nurses have got a professional and legal obligation to support patients to receive adequate personal care (not being compelled to poo yourself has got to be rung one of meeting that obligation).

Friends who have given birth in Ireland, france, south Korea, Switzerland were all given support to sleep, recover, be recognised as an injured person in need of recovery time.

British nurses trick new mothers into thinking they can't leave their babies for a minute on a bloody hospital ward (even when they've got numb legs).

Rise up, damnit!

OP posts:
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12
Cucucucu · 20/08/2023 15:45

BIossomtoes · 20/08/2023 13:28

I think a lot of what is happening could be better if hospitals allows partners to stay longer . Give women individual rooms so that partners can stay and care for the baby and help

It would be considerably more cost effective to employ more healthcare assistants to provide that help than creating countless single rooms. The answer to sub par postnatal care isn’t to subcontract it to partners - what happens to women with useless partners, women whose partners have to care for older children or women with no partner at all?

You are wrong , new units and the ones currently being refurbished in Scotland are being made exactly that way . One bathroom for 2 bedrooms ( opens to both rooms ) .

ChillysWaterBottle · 20/08/2023 16:08

I feel like the posters here claiming to be midwives must be trolls or parodies. Their posts are so very telling.

Understaffing (the excuse given for the care I received) does not excuse the sociopathic bullying, cruelty and incompetence I experienced and observed. I'm starting to think the profession must attract a certain kind of person. You have a lot of power over people at their most vulnerable.

BIossomtoes · 20/08/2023 16:13

Cucucucu · 20/08/2023 15:45

You are wrong , new units and the ones currently being refurbished in Scotland are being made exactly that way . One bathroom for 2 bedrooms ( opens to both rooms ) .

I’m not wrong. It would cost a mind blowing amount of money to replace every postnatal ward in the UK with single rooms. Far, far cheaper to staff the existing ones properly. And you still haven’t addressed the other point about women whose partners couldn’t or wouldn’t support them. Or women without partners at all.

Badbadbunny · 20/08/2023 16:35

BIossomtoes · 20/08/2023 16:13

I’m not wrong. It would cost a mind blowing amount of money to replace every postnatal ward in the UK with single rooms. Far, far cheaper to staff the existing ones properly. And you still haven’t addressed the other point about women whose partners couldn’t or wouldn’t support them. Or women without partners at all.

Nothing to stop new maternity units being built with more single rooms, nothing to stop it happening during refurbishments of older ones. No one is suggesting some huge building operation to do "every" one immediately. A longer term plan to actually start doing it as and when it's feasible would be a massive improvement.

But no, as is usually the case with anything public sector, it's always the "we've always done it this way", coupled with "cuts" as the lazy answer to why there's no innovation/improvement/modernisation.

MariaVT65 · 20/08/2023 16:40

threatmatrix · 20/08/2023 13:39

‘She’s’ part of the problem? To be a midwife you have to take out a loan and go to Uni but you still have to do 12 hour shifts for free at a hospital and pay for your parking. Is this fair? The work very fucking hard, so get off your high horse, maybe it’s people like you that are the problem. A baby can be left unattended whilst you go to the toilet, but you expect a nurse to wait on you? Have you got servants at home? You expect a nurse to babysit for you whilst she could be looking after a baby without a parent. Unfeckingbelievable.

Just to point out, many of the working midwives will not have had to pay for their tuition. My friend in her 30s didn’t have to pay tuition fees. She also gets her parking back through expenses. Also, a lot of us other people in other professions are up to our arse in student debt and don’t even have parking at work at all. Doesn’t mean we can treat people like crap does it? I don’t really get your argument.

onlylovecanhurtlikethis · 20/08/2023 16:44

I have given birth twice in the U.K. in the last 5 years or so - singleton and a set of twins. Never had an issue.

Badbadbunny · 20/08/2023 16:49

@threatmatrix

Lots of professionals are up to their eyeballs in debt and have to pay for parking at work (in fact lots aren't able to park at work at all and have to pay for expensive public car parks).

Pollyputhekettleon · 20/08/2023 16:53

RoomOfRequirement · 20/08/2023 12:52

Weren't you the one who just said there's been no hate to midwives or nurses then a post later says the deserve your vitriol?

Calling other posters cry bullies when that's how your acting is ridiculous. Actually think you're probably OP under a name change

It's embarassing that I have to point this out but there's a difference between a profession and individual members of it. I also don't think you understand what crybullying is. Again, you're evading the point and trying to turn midwives into the real victims here.

Pollyputhekettleon · 20/08/2023 17:06

Cucucucu · 20/08/2023 15:36

The way you were spoken is not ok at all, absolutely no excuse for that . But bear in mind that by 24 h after you are supposed to be up and walking ok . I have had 4 c-sections from different kinds of emergency ones to planned ones and you really must get up as soon as the spinal wears off or your recovery will be much worse , I do understand how this goes against anything your body tells you but it really makes it easier in the long run

The way she was spoken to and what was said is the entire point though. The fact that it's important to get mobile soon after a c-section is absolutely irrelevant. It's not acceptable to call your patient lazy and useless, ever, for any reason. And that's the end of it, that's all there is to be said. This is verbal and emotional abuse by people in a position of power over women who are in a very vulnerable state.

CallumDansTransitVan · 20/08/2023 17:25

knitnerd90 · 18/08/2023 08:33

The racial gaps in maternity care in the UK are appalling also. We like to blame all the issues and bad outcomes in America on their for profit health system, but we don't do better! I gave birth in London near the time of the Northwick Park scandal and as I recall all the women who died were not white.

As the ethnicity of the population of Brent is made up of approximately 2/3 non white. That can hardly be an indicaton of racism. That would be like saying that all neonatal incidents in the Scottish Islands were white and they were racially discriminated against.

threatmatrix · 20/08/2023 17:40

Pollyputhekettleon · 20/08/2023 16:53

It's embarassing that I have to point this out but there's a difference between a profession and individual members of it. I also don't think you understand what crybullying is. Again, you're evading the point and trying to turn midwives into the real victims here.

Oh please

threatmatrix · 20/08/2023 17:42

MariaVT65 · 20/08/2023 16:40

Just to point out, many of the working midwives will not have had to pay for their tuition. My friend in her 30s didn’t have to pay tuition fees. She also gets her parking back through expenses. Also, a lot of us other people in other professions are up to our arse in student debt and don’t even have parking at work at all. Doesn’t mean we can treat people like crap does it? I don’t really get your argument.

My daughter is trying to be a midwife in the U.K., she has a student loan, still has to work a few 12 hours shift for free. Don’t talk to me about student debt.

threatmatrix · 20/08/2023 17:44

vibecheck · 20/08/2023 14:21

I realise that you probably didn’t mean it badly but please don’t say “their own kind” in a racial context.

Now I’m racist 😂😂😂😂 but saying black women are treated worse isn’t 😂😂

woodhill · 20/08/2023 17:47

Yes that's what is so unfair about it

Different when there was no student loans but really they should be paid imo

MammaTill2Pojkar · 20/08/2023 17:50

ForestGoblin · 18/08/2023 08:31

I wonder how many british women go to give birth abroad now. Norway sounds nice.

My husband refused to have another baby in the UK due to bad experiences with the NHS with our first baby/pregnancy/birth. Luckily we ended up moving to Germany for a bit and had our second baby there, the experience in Berlin was amazing!

MariaVT65 · 20/08/2023 18:15

threatmatrix · 20/08/2023 17:42

My daughter is trying to be a midwife in the U.K., she has a student loan, still has to work a few 12 hours shift for free. Don’t talk to me about student debt.

Lol but I’m still not sure what the point is of your argument. Our experiences have come from qualified midwives, not student midwives. The one student midwife I had was lovely. My friend also trains student midwives and believe me, a lot them do not warrant earning money because they do nothing. I’m sure your daughter is different though. NHS staff also get more annual leave and better pension deals.

Again, no excuse for treating patients like animals, so not sure what your point is.

NoDought · 20/08/2023 18:22

Anecdotal stories by definition are personal accounts without reference or evidence base. You accuse people of gaslighting because they have a different opinion to you and suggest understaffing is the issue, can you not be a bit objective of the situation or just go ahead and blame the nurses for all the issues then if it keeps you happy.

CoffeeMama1 · 20/08/2023 18:49

Cucucucu · 20/08/2023 15:36

The way you were spoken is not ok at all, absolutely no excuse for that . But bear in mind that by 24 h after you are supposed to be up and walking ok . I have had 4 c-sections from different kinds of emergency ones to planned ones and you really must get up as soon as the spinal wears off or your recovery will be much worse , I do understand how this goes against anything your body tells you but it really makes it easier in the long run

I appreciate that's the general advice but I lost a.lot.od blood and by 24hrs I hadn't even had my catheter removed and due to another surgery recovery (I had to have surgery 2 weeks before birth which is the reason I then needed a cesarean) I wasn't even as mobile pre cesarean as most people would be. There was no support for this and I had to keep reminding them I couldn't do things they'd maybe expect. A patient shouldn't have to justify themselves like that.

Post discharge I didn't see a signal medical person until the health visitor at 2 weeks, and we never had a midwife visit for me or baby, despite the fact there was no clinic I could access as it was a 20 minute drive and I couldn't do that. They don't make care accessible of you don't fit into their box of typical patient.

Needspace2023 · 20/08/2023 18:55

ChillysWaterBottle · 20/08/2023 16:08

I feel like the posters here claiming to be midwives must be trolls or parodies. Their posts are so very telling.

Understaffing (the excuse given for the care I received) does not excuse the sociopathic bullying, cruelty and incompetence I experienced and observed. I'm starting to think the profession must attract a certain kind of person. You have a lot of power over people at their most vulnerable.

I wouldn't go that far as to say it attracts a certain type. I'm just mire concerned there aren't enough checks and monitoring of negligence and belittling.
I believe because women, especially mothers are just not valued in the UK. Many of us felt like we were burdens after giving birth. It is disgusting 😒

Needspace2023 · 20/08/2023 18:56

@threatmatrix
There had been a lot of research and discussion on this as well as anecdotes. The numbers speak for themsleves. Not really your place to dismiss these.

Pollyputhekettleon · 20/08/2023 19:02

NoDought · 20/08/2023 18:22

Anecdotal stories by definition are personal accounts without reference or evidence base. You accuse people of gaslighting because they have a different opinion to you and suggest understaffing is the issue, can you not be a bit objective of the situation or just go ahead and blame the nurses for all the issues then if it keeps you happy.

Try to at least make sense.

NoDought · 20/08/2023 19:06

What bit are you struggling to understand?

concernedmumhelp · 20/08/2023 19:08

I was reflecting this afternoon on how we could make things better.

It occurred to me that I had never approached the services to give feedback, positive or negative (though I did speak to the individuals concerned about the positives).

I really didn't want to focus on the negatives; I didn't want to "complain".

But I guess services won't get better unless there is constructive feedback - and I think that is what is required really.

And I also thought, it would be a very good mumsnetty sort of thing to encourage people to report back to their local hospitals in a constructive way.

In my case, quite a lot of time has passed - I wouldn't have been able to do this at the time.

But maybe I could do it now.

It might be more effective than a "debriefing" in some ways - I definitely didn't imagine the negative stuff I experienced.

I wonder though, how it would be received?

The system is set up to respond in a damage-limiting way to complaints, made within 3 years, not to constructive feedback, especially if given after that window of time.

CallumDansTransitVan · 20/08/2023 19:09

That report does highlight to very large issues.

  1. A Woman's socio-economic background no matter of race made a large difference.
  2. The majority of those who had issues also had mortality affecting illnesses such as obesity & diabetes.

Those identifying as Black British have a higher incidence of both of these as a population.