To think British maternity care must be among the worst in the developed world?

[ForestGoblin]

Nurses refusing to watch newborns when a mum needs to poo??? Nurses have got a professional and legal obligation to support patients to receive adequate personal care (not being compelled to poo yourself has got to be rung one of meeting that obligation).

Friends who have given birth in Ireland, france, south Korea, Switzerland were all given support to sleep, recover, be recognised as an injured person in need of recovery time.

British nurses trick new mothers into thinking they can't leave their babies for a minute on a bloody hospital ward (even when they've got numb legs).

Rise up, damnit!

My mum spent a week in hospital after having my sister and I - no complications that's just what happened then (late 70s/early 80s).

I had two c sections with my children, the first was an emergency. Both times I was discharged in 24 hours. The first I was given painkillers. The second I wasn't given any. When I asked the next day, the nurse/midwife said I had 'to ask'.

My FIL had a hip replacement around the same time, same trust. He was in hospital for about 3 days, had physio to help him walk again, had access to unlimited painkillers (including morphine), had a menu for lunch and dinner. After my c section I had to walk to get my own food and lunch was a baked potato.

The difference in care was massive - very obvious that major cuts have been made to postnatal care but not to other areas.

What’s the point you are making?

That black nurses are more likely to have deaths on their hands?

1. IMO it’s untrue that most London nurses are black - tends to be fairly diverse actually.
2. Who makes medical decisions and would they be more/less likely to listen to a black nurse?

You are part of the problem. Shame on you.

For my 1st antenatal care was excellent, same for current so far (32 weeks - I only recently found out that scans post 30 weeks isn’t usual)

Postnatal (CS) was a shit show. DH and I were left to it, lovely bubble for us but clearly staff didn’t have time if we needed help
I also forgot to be fed, fella next door offered to get us food as PFBDH didn’t want to leave us at all!

I feel it for women who don’t want strange men about and have some guilt at having DH there, but I chose hosp on this basis as I knew its how I’d be properly cared for.
And neither of us really wanted him to miss out.

To add - I was out of it after CS, barely conscious.
DH did all DS care for first 12 hrs, what would have happened to my baby if he wasn’t there?

The bottom line is mothers in the UK are treated with contempt. This starts with child birth and leads to expensive and poorly funded childcare and sexism at work. Many women drop out of the work force or take up low paid jobs.
NHS staff who are responsible for aftercare are always women as well with bad working conditions, hours and pay. Many staff also are from overseas and many women of colour. What power do they have to change this hideous situation for women giving birth?

Who is going to sort this out? I was traumatised by giving birth due to the supposed aftercare given to me.

Oh and to the midwives here 💐

I suspect in most cases the care you’d want to give v have to give (resources) are polar opposites, and that some of the truly awful treatment is due to burnout etc.

I’m nervous of poor treatment again and prepping around it (bringing own meds, food and drink, DH due to stay) but childbirth should be a celebration for all and not a decking endurance test.

Yes happens all the time with awful staff, seen it on a fair few trusts. Also friends in other trust have similar stories. Good staff get burnt out carrying the awful and often work shy ones.

I am in Scotland and had a terrible birth and an EMCS under GA with ds, but the midwife and Dr care I couldn't fault.

From when I started my induction to ds being born I had 2 midwives (one student) with me at all times. Dh was sent home for a sleep at one point, and the mw remained. I had 3 pairs of mw in total.

Ds was in scbu for the first day, he joined me the second day. We were lucky we were put in a private room so dh could stay most of the day, but he went home at night shortly after visiting to eat. The second night the nurse offered to take ds to her desk so i could sleep and we agreed together she could give him a cup feed as my milk wasn't in yet after EMCS and ds was hungry. Dont think I changed a nappy the first 2-3 days as dh was either there or mw had him. Milk came in day 3, woke with hard full boobs and they helped me latch/hand express to deflate boobs a bit when I had problems. They took ds while dh helped me with my first shower. They kept on top of my pain relief.

There was a point I was left with heavily bloodied sheets for nearly a full day, but they were very busy so it understandbly it wasnt top priority, they were changed before bedtime and apologised/chatted while they changed them.

And I’m sorry that people have had bad experiences! But all the bashing needs to stop!

my point is that there are very good examples of great experiences! I personally had care that was second to none (and I wasn’t even a midwife then)

it’s posts such as these that really generalise and make everyone look the same and that is so very frustrating and heart breaking!

Your experience is not the ONLY experience. We could make these posts about anything really!

Im trying to tell you that I work hard for you every single day and that I know the women in my care can see that . It’s really hard to see you all think you know so much! You really don’t !

No shame on you!!!!

Having a positive birth experience should be the absolute norm. As all these experiences relayed here demonstrate, a positive birth experience has not been the norm in the UK for decades.

I don’t understand how a woman describing her traumatic experience is “bashing”.

No attitude at all, I’m simply telling you I can barely keep my eyes open for my own children to look after people like you and this is the ATTITUDE! It’s terrible.

No self pity, like I said, I do this job because I want to support.

Could you look after 3 labouring women on your own , as a newly qualified , at the same time ?

so yeah, I will jump on just to give you a slight insight because you really do not know! So much of this is incorrect.

ill say again, I do not think it’s ok that some people go through bad experiences or condone.

what I am expressing is that it is not every single experience is it so why should I sit and watch you all bash the whole system.

Sorry, but your full of bad attitude

Hollyppp - thank you so much for this! We need more people like us to show there is good and bad in everything.

Im so glad you had a great experience , I live for this 💜

I had the opposite, I dared to go to toilet, a mum in next bed watched baby for me, when I got back I was told off by a nurse for going to loo. No support with establishing breast feeding, hated every moment, that was 28 years ago, sad that not much has changed.

Doesn’t she just!

@Spanglishmummy3 I am sure that midwives work very hard, generally speaking. I am sure it is a tough job and that it is very stressful, especially if there are complications with a birth. I am very grateful to my community midwife and also my obstetricians, who supported me really well.

At the same time, quite a lot of women are having really bad experiences with maternity services.

And some midwives are rude, dismissive, do not do basic checks or look after their patients' basic needs. I know through my own personal experience that this can be the case.

It isn't the "attitude" of the mothers that is entirely to blame here. Just read the thread.

Have you actually read the whole thread though? There’s a lot of support on here for hard-pressed staff, but…

Some of the posts are heartbreaking, many are extremely concerning. Some of us have talked about our experiences of giving birth 40 odd years ago, when we felt secure and cared for during our post-natal care in clean, calm wards. We can see how things have changed for our daughters and it’s not for the better.

We can’t dismiss all the bad experiences as fabricated and/or the posts being the result of new mothers wanting to slag off staff for no reason. These problems need addressing.

You talk yourself about how exhausted you and other staff are. So why is this? Is it lack of funding, shortage of midwives/nursing staff or of support workers, cleaners, etc, bad leadership, changes in behaviour/expectations of the general public? Whatever it is, it needs sorting. And surely all staff would themselves benefit enormously if improvements were made?

Chaotic wards where mothers daren’t leave their babies, dirty facilities, vulnerable patients left unfed? There are too many reports on here of these things happening for them to be dismissed as lies or exaggerations. None of them are acceptable in a first world country, and they certainly wouldn’t have been back in the day. What changes would you want to see?

🙏😊

And it isn’t just the whole of the maternity system either. Which is why I feel it’s an unfair thread!

Were not all the same! I think fine to talk about experiences but it’s not fine to make judgment of any one group. I’m a fair person and I find that really tough

You want to silence women who have bad experiences? Yes, you are very much part of the problem.

And I can only guess at how you treat mother who don’t ‘behave’ the way you want them to, and dare to question their care.

And I think those cases are simply awful!

but then do the right thing and make a complaint of clinical negligence! Don’t assume because your experience was unfortunately bad, that all medical staff are all the same! It’s completely unfair and very hard to digest when you know personally how hard you work. I love the ladies I attend to and every day, and I give them 100%
so why would I see this post and say we’re all the same?

I said nothing of silencing Women! Infact that’s why I joined mumsnet! V. Important to discuss ‘experiences’

Im saying that it’s unfair to generalise , so don’t accuse me
of something I have not done just to get your own point heard

@Spanglishmummy3 You’re still failing to acknowledge our experiences. You may work hard and do your best but that doesn’t negate all the horrific experiences and care most of us on this thread have had.

It’s not a case of ‘us thinking we know it all’. It’s all we know BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED. I might add that i had a complaint for a year afterwards and the hospital admitted neglect on several occasions both for me and my son.

In fact, your attitude seems to mirror the attitude of many midwives we meet in person. You simply don’t acknowledge, believe or respect us.

It’s also all very well saying make a complaint about negligence. You know what happens? They apologise, THEN NOTHING CHANGES

I gave birth 40 years ago in my local hospital. Even then there were not sufficient staff on the wards so mums kept an eye on each other’s baby while we washed or visited the loo. No fathers were allowed to stay and if visitors attempted to come out of hours they were sent packing. It was all very woman focussed and peaceful, with a huge sense of being in this together! Babies were routinely taken to the nursery on the first night after birth to give the mother a decent sleep following delivery,
However the toilets were grubby, the food appalling and lord help vegetarians in an area with a high % of Asian patients with specific dietary needs. The nurses were kind, but brisk as they were so busy. The HCAs seemed to be older ladies and were very kind and supportive. I can’t imagine being in a ward with strange men around constantly, and I’m not of a nervous disposition. If you had a CS I assume there was more support but the rest of us got on with it and helped each other.