To think British maternity care must be among the worst in the developed world?

[ForestGoblin]

Nurses refusing to watch newborns when a mum needs to poo??? Nurses have got a professional and legal obligation to support patients to receive adequate personal care (not being compelled to poo yourself has got to be rung one of meeting that obligation).

Friends who have given birth in Ireland, france, south Korea, Switzerland were all given support to sleep, recover, be recognised as an injured person in need of recovery time.

British nurses trick new mothers into thinking they can't leave their babies for a minute on a bloody hospital ward (even when they've got numb legs).

Rise up, damnit!

I had my babies in King's College Hospital in London FWIW. Could not fault them.

I remember my community midwife getting me to fill in the birthing plan forms. I did ask whether there was much point to this because I literally have no idea what will happen and my only expectation is that we both come out of it safe and alive.

Had two sections and mistakes were made during the second that quite honestly caused so much pain at the time oramorph didn't have any effect. The midwives chastised me wanting pain relief that would prevent breastfeeding They completely didn't believe I was in so much pain, the only actual care was shown by a Health care assistant who tried to look after me. I'd been sat on the edge of the bed for 12 hours at this point doubled over.

Then the next day the consultant was back on shift and by about lunchtime came in with a few other people to explain what had gone wrong and why I had been in agony.

I do look back on it with the attitude that yes it was awful but no lasting damage and we're all alive. I shouldn't have to have that attitude but I don't like to think about it tbh, it's too much of a bad memory.

Oh no, random stranger on the internet thinks I may not be nice, the worst possible insult for a woman. I might cry now.

I don't think anyone is denying that understaffing is a massive issue and causes or contributes to a lot of the problems people are describing. But there is complete denial that there are problems with conduct, attitude and culture that have little or nothing to do with understaffing. The solution to that aspect of it would start with midwives, and actually all healthcare professionals because this isn't limited to the midwives, as a profession ceasing the denial and minimizing of that, stopping blaming it on other people/the government, showing compassion for the women who suffer it, and taking responsibility for improving it.

Agree with funding issues.

But individual midwives who are rude to women do deserve to be criticised. I work in the NHS and it is not acceptable for me or my juniors to speak to patients the way many midwives treat women.

Well said

Absolutely no one said 'midwives are mean'. People need to stop making things up in order to avoid dealing with what's actually being said. Burnout does not cause and is not an excuse for viciousness, callousness, abuse, assault (which is literally what some women are describing), bullying and cruelty. I've been horrendously stressed, overworked and burnt out several times. I never once took it out on anyone else.

'The midwife called me cack handed because I was trembling when holding the baby.' - Burnout made her say that did it? Sure...

You know, the parallels between the apologists on here, Lucy Letby's excuses and the behaviour of NHS management in that case are becoming really unavoidable at this point. There are also of course the political ideologues who always want the conversation to be focused on the Tories and money, and who therefore can't tolerate anything else being discussed.

My first baby I was out the next day
With twins c section and one on icu I had to stay it was awful. One nurse was too lazy to give me pain killers at night. My sister is a midwife so she complained but was so shocked at how awful the care was. I just wanted to get out of there same nurse threw bee sheets at a new mum and told her to make her own bed....she too was an ex midwife.
Some have an awful attitude probably caused by being so overworked and or a bit of a god complex.

'The midwife called me cack handed because I was trembling when holding the baby.' A man made a rule that made her say that did he? I didn't realize the patriarchy paid so much attention to detail.

People need to stop making things up in order to avoid dealing with what's actually being said. Burnout does not cause and is not an excuse for viciousness, callousness, abuse, assault (which is literally what some women are describing), bullying and cruelty.

I think it's intertwined with the concept of the NHS being 'free'. That means we should accept being treated with little to no respect and still be grateful.

I'd have been sacked if I spoke to my clients like I've been spoken to by certain members of staff in the NHS. I have been polite and respectful but some have been appallingly rude. I've worked in a stressful job where 80 hour weeks weren't uncommon but it's not acceptable to treat people that way.

Some of my friends are consultants and I know work tirelessly in difficult conditions. But the NHS can't be beyond criticism and patients shouldn't have to accept rude staff because they're not billed personally for treatment. Fortunately, I have private healthcare but not everyone has that option.

My son is living proof of the neglect I received when he was born.

I had a placenta abruption, but was not aware of this until well after my baby was born. I was left for hours while my unborn baby was being starved of oxygen. I asked the two nurses if everything was going to be ok. I was told everything is fine. The doctor at the time told them to leave me a bit longer.
Eventually I had an Emergency C section, my son was critically ill and I was told if makes it, it won’t come alone and he will have severe disabilities. He did make it, but has Cerebral Palsy and requires 24/7 care.
Any where else would have delivered him immediately, they would not of left us for hours. Our lives were turned upside down because of them. Lack of staff, lack of knowledge and complacency.

So, when I was having a "medically managed" miscarriage (of a much wanted baby), I was left to bleed out overnight until my haemoglobin dropped several points, then I had to go for an emergency ERCP in the morning.

The nurses were supposed to be measuring the blood lost, I had been really careful to make sure the blood was all collected as far as possible in the bed pans/containers they gave me, but I later found they poured the blood away without thinking to monitor it. I would say this was more down to poor practice rather than them being busy as it would have been such a quick but important thing to do.

The consultant the next morning was shocked that I had been left to bleed like that and that an ERCP hadn't been done overnight, given how much blood I was losing.

You could, I suppose, argue that if the staff were very busy, that might have had a bearing on my less than optimal treatment.

However, in the afternoon following the inappropriately delayed ERCP, I was too wobbly to walk and was not discharged by the doctors because I would not have been able to walk up and down steps to our house. One of the nurses thought it was her business to sneer at me for using the hospital "like a bed and breakfast". This was a middle-aged woman with some air of self-importance, so might have been a relatively senior one. Presumably, she wasn't too busy to be unkind to me, as it took extra time and energy to make an untoward comment?

Did I complain? No. I was bereaved of a much-wanted baby and had too much going on in my life. It didn't seem the best thing to do at that point,

Did I get good care? hell no. Not from the nurses, though the doctors were pretty kind.

(Not sure if these were nurses or had midwifery training, but all midwives start off as nurses.)

The free healthcare theory would make sense except lots of women have said their experiences decades ago were much better and that seems to be a consensus. In Ireland maternity care is also free and, while the same attitude problems do exist here, it sounds like it's much better. As far as I know it's free in France too, yet much less barbaric.

I also work that kind of job and many people are extremely stressed, overworked, dealing with all kinds of nonsense. We have bullies and nasty individuals as any job does. The difference is that no one would dream of accepting burnout or understaffing as an excuse from the bullies. It's a cultural problem in the NHS.

Ugh. Victim blaming at its finest.

Completely agree, had my dc 12 and 8 years ago, both emergency sections. Second time had a massive haemorrhage post surgery and needed lots of blood transfusing. Once on the ante natal ward I was treated like nothing had happened to me. I was worried the bleeding was getting heavy again, told a midwife and it was hours before they came to me. Felt extreme pressure to breast feed even though I was so unwell and dd was struggling to latch on. Told if I gave her a bottle it was like giving her McDonald's!!! They wanted to send me home the next day and I refused to leave, I was struggling to even walk to the toilet, never mind the car park. Never again!

Only those who can afford it, i.e. the well-off middle classes. Most women go home after 6 hours, and that is a position women in this country have got themselves into by campaigning for earlier discharge from hospitals after the birth. In the past we were more sensible, giving women 7-10 days in hospital/nursing home before they went home and then daily visits by the midwife for another couple of weeks. Natural childbirth and unsupervised post partum causes death - which is why we stopped doing them.

RF here in early 2000s. I can relate to this. Cruel, unkind and neglectful postnatal care too. 20 years later and I won’t forget or forgive.

I did have good midwives during labour though. The postnatal ones were dreadful. I wondered if they keep the ‘good’ ones for the actual deliveries and the others get sent to the postnatal wards…

With my DD the ward was fab. 14m later, with my DS the ward was awful - different wards so different staff. They wanted my DS in BCU cos I have diabetes, but BCU paediatricians saw to his . The nursing staff were bullies and I could not wait to leave the hospital. I reported everything to the paediatricians who I knew spoke to the person in charge of the ward. They had to stay with Mt DS though cos he screamed his lungs off whenever I needed the loo. Turns out he is ASD and this was an indicator.

It is all about local culture too. You can have two identically funded units with vastly different experiences.

If you have decent management where there is a positive culture, there is better care for patients. And I mean the ‘little things’. A manager who organises the rota in time. Tries to respect annual leave requests. The team is encouraged to bring in cakes for each other. Staff allowed to have a quick chat with each other before or after handover to catch up and have a laugh. So many managers do not realise the importance of fostering a positive team culture.

I say this as a consultant who has worked on wards for over twenty years. And I am frequently asked why my ward works so well compared to the one below us in the building. I don’t have any clever answers about processes when asked. It is simply that as a team we respect and look after each other, whatever the grade. And as a result the patients benefit.

That is why I do not think this is just about funding. All clinicians and managers have a responsibility for the way they deliver care as individuals. Hiding behind funding to excuse rudeness is unacceptable.

Im sorry to read that you had appalling treatment too. I won’t forgive or forget. They weren’t burnt out they were just plain cruel nasty women. I think your right about keeping the good ones for delivery.

I also think/ know how hard it is to sack NHS staff. I found these loud uncaring staff are tolerated by managers. I’ve also seen how poisonous/toxic attitudes spread among staff and become the norm. I worked in the NHS for 20yrs, I left the NHS 2 years ago. I’m just about keeping hold of my PIN may let it lapse when it comes to revalidate.

The awful staff where I work seem to end up with more ‘support’ and get moved horizontally between services. They appear to have such legal ‘power’ on their side and my trust is too weak to bite the bullet and sack the shit ones.

I cannot believe this thread !!! But can imagine the type of people that would have this type of complaint!!

I'm a mother of two, and also a midwife who has worked in two very different areas.

You sit there and sl*g off NHS staff! How very ungrateful! I come home absolutely exhausted and do this job for the love of wanting to support women and babies where I can and I know it's the same for my colleagues.

How very upsetting to read such generalised , narrow minded views and so much of it not even factual!

You HAVE to be a qualified midwife , you cannot be a nurse without having had a midwifery top up, unless you are either a HCA or other medical staff.

I think you all need something to do.

And like another poster said , yep I simply went to the loo too on a ward when I needed to go! How very precious!!! Why don't you take your wallet out! It's clearly busting at the seems

I had fantastic maternity care twice (2020 and 2023) in a south london hospital and none of the comments here ring true to what I experienced. I had two EMC and amazing post natal care for 3 days after surgery

Thank you for volunteering yet another example of the attitude problem, complete with the self-pity and total lack of self awareness.

I know it’s long, but have you even read all the thread?

Many women now have PTSD after their experience.

Many women have spoken about being denied access to water, food and painkillers.

Many women have spoken about blood loss not being managed.

Many women are talking about basic checks not being done on them or their babies.

Many women are talking about being bullied when breastfeeding isn’t working straight away.

Many women are talking about not being believed when something is wrong.

It’s not just a case of the toilet issue. Have a heart and stop trivialising our experiences. Quite a few of us have mentioned that we are absolutely terrified of having another child because of the hospital ‘care’.