To think British maternity care must be among the worst in the developed world?

[ForestGoblin]

Nurses refusing to watch newborns when a mum needs to poo??? Nurses have got a professional and legal obligation to support patients to receive adequate personal care (not being compelled to poo yourself has got to be rung one of meeting that obligation).

Friends who have given birth in Ireland, france, south Korea, Switzerland were all given support to sleep, recover, be recognised as an injured person in need of recovery time.

British nurses trick new mothers into thinking they can't leave their babies for a minute on a bloody hospital ward (even when they've got numb legs).

Rise up, damnit!

Sorry, I simply don’t believe this

Hmmm the last bit about being given the gloves sounds far fetched but the rest of it sounds like my own experince. My god the toilets were gross. Blood everywhere and a bunch of those cardboard pots of urine. The first time I went to the bathroom post c section (the first time I'd got out of bed), the midwife made me get out of bed to go, I staggered with her to the bathroom, then she left me there. I tried to get back to my own bed but could feel myself blacking out. I managed to stagger into a wheelchair that was thankfully in the hallway and someone saw me and came to help. Honestly though, the way postnatal women are treated is appalling.

@CoalCraft can I ask what hospital it was that had ensuite rooms? what a brilliant idea! I'm in for a csection in 10 weeks time and hoping you say it's the hospital I'm at 🤞

Nobody’s gaslighting anyone. Maternity care’s a disgrace because it’s understaffed and underfunded.

I've had both NHS & Private maternity care and they are both as bad in my experience. I'm sorry you had an awful experience too, I cannot believe they treated "their own" like that. I also ended up with PTSD after my first birth too.

I agree with most of this, but remember there are still midwives out there who want to do their job to the best of their ability but they just can’t. Understaffing is a massive issue and for all of you saying it shouldn’t be an excuse, unfortunately it is. It’s one of the biggest ones. These people are stretched so thin at the moment, they can only give what they have. They need to reset and recharge too, unfortunately this is at the detriment of the patients.

what would everyone’s solution be to this problem?

I didn’t return to the UK in 2011 because I was pregnant and it was high risk. I delivered in the US and we stayed because the NHS midwife team were being so ridiculous. They wouldn’t do a handover meeting with my US medical team. My care was being managed by a high risk medical team in NJ (the dishy Dr Principe who was on the real housewives of NJ was my doctor). I was told I was being snobby.

im happy I gave birth in the Us. I had a heart attack on the delivery table. I’d been in labour for 22 hours, had pre eclampsia and the c section decided on at 3pm, wasn’t done until 9pm. It wasn’t a big panic, the medical teams were all prepared and ready. My 2nd child had undiagnosed gestational diabetes and needed help when delivered. Again, pediatric team were standing by and walked into the operating room within 30 seconds of the call being made.

Third child, I was almost a semi celebrity at that point. After the first two horrific deliveries we were all shocked I was there for a third time. All teams were on standby and it was a scheduled c section. They gave me top floor suite with amazing views and signed off on a one week stay with the baby and 12 weeks of a night nurse.

In the meantime, the Uk has lost millions from my ex husband and I in tax revenue. The jobs his business would have created and opportunity to demonstrate proper leadership never materialized. This is why medical care matters.

Another thing i remember is that back in 2010 when I was calling the countess of Chester, I was told not to go there to deliver. Too many women were having a bad experience delivering and not being listened to. I was told to go to Liverpool women’s or Arrowe Park. The leadership issues at the countess were an issue back then.

I had an appalling birth experience with an incompetent registrar, and then having a week staying in hospital. The midwives were saving grace during and after. My midwife actually came to help me after her shift had finished and the following day to check on me.
They were understaffed but it really wasn't helped by two new "entitled" mothers, who were buzzing constantly asking for their babies to be looked after so they could "rest", then spending hours talking loudly on their phones into wee small hours keeping rest of us awake, and making unnecessary and frivolous demands on the staff as if it were a hotel.

I had to beg to have a catheter removed after a difficult 1st birth that had to be induced to go to the toilet. I had an epidural and had a horrific headache, tears from pushing. Noisy ward. The midwife called me cack handed because I was trembling when holding the baby. No support with breastfeeding and had bleeding nipples and was told to try harder by breastfeeding expert who would flit in and out. Husband was clueless back then and I had no food or pain killers. It was absolutely traumatic. Was discharged after 3 days of hell and I was begging to go home.
Second time round, easy natural birth. I wanted to leave the hospital after a few hours and I did! Went home and had fish and chips.

I feel livid for mums and livid for midwives. Both are treated appallingly in this country.

I've had 4 babies with pretty terrible after care so I took matters into my own hands with the last two. In case it helps any soon to be mums survive postnatal:

• I took two of those giant plastic water bottles to hospital and DH put them in easy reach for me. Ditto food. I took loads of easy to grab food in case I couldn't get to the kitchen.

• I took a really long phone charger wire because the plug socket was miles away.

• I took my own paracetamol in with me and if they forgot to give pain relief I took my own. I'm not recommending this I just didn't want to be in agony with after pains and I always made sure I kept track of the recommended intervals.

• Also had DH put nappies, wipes and a couple of spare baby outfits in easy reach before he left so I could do nappy changes without having to rummage around for everything.

These few things made a big difference to me but it still makes me sad and angry that my expectations of care were so low that I had to do this.

This is not the point of the thread, but I didn't know that you couldn't leave your baby at your bay so I just waddled off to the toilet when I needed to and to get a drink etc. No one said anything.

I did wait for DP to visit to have a shower though.

If you came across like you do in your last paragraph I see why they thought you were being snobby. Your highness, with your millions and your night nurse.

sorry I’m a bit confused. You’re comparing wound dressing etc to watching a baby whilst a mother goes to the toilet? Why couldn’t the baby just stay by the bed, how will people use the toilet at home if nobody is there to hold the baby?

i think the NHS would be ok with MN saying the midwives were mean

The reality is they are burnout which is a psychological response to horrendous work conditions. If you look at how burnout presents and what people are describing on this tread it’s very similar. The NHS has a responsibility to provide a safe work place to stop staff becoming psychologically impacted (burnout) which then impacts the women they care for. The NHS does not do this. It’s too simplistic to say midwives are mean

I’m saying this as a nurse who recognised burnout in herself and has left the profession and never been happier

Yes

We've had it chapter and verse on MN for at least ten years but nothing ever changes.

And that's because it's men making the rules, and maternity care doesn't affect them, so it'll never change.

I had my first baby in 2008 at the Royal Free hospital. The care was horrific and despite having a c-sec and some nasty complications they tried to get me to get up 40 mins after spinal was out. Several midwives were bullying and rude. I have a health condition that typically affects males but females can have it too. They were kept telling me I was lying and females didn’t get this.

No help or support and they were just so rude and unkind. I’ve never cried so much. I am not a crier. I’m a childrens nurse and I was utterly broken by them. I ended up self discharging and got a mouthful of abuse which the midwife admitted too.

I copied the NMC code of conduct and high lighted every part they broke. Sent it to the chief ex and PALS. She got sent on a ‘customer care course’ ?!

Yep! I think that was reported by the RCM. Sadly, due to the dire culture in the NHS, even if they had endless funds to pay staff I still don’t think there would be enough staff … it’s sadly gone way past that.

I just get the impression that half of the time the care the could be giving is compromised by cost implications. Like:

Well a c-section would be less risky but let’s plough on for a bit with pushing as a natural birth if poss would be cheaper. All
the time the mum knows she needs a section but no one will admit it.

we could pay staff adequately so that 2 hours post section when unable to get to your screaming baby yourself and your other half had gone home they’d be someone to pass it to you.but no, they say that it’s better that the c-section mum move herself despite being in immense pain as that will ‘help healing’. Sorry, don’t believe you.

Getting up and about as soon as the epidural fades is best for the mother, oh and if we could discharge you at the same time that would help your bonding (not that we want you out to use the bed).

and the ‘too early for an epidural’ nonsense. Don’t believe you there either. I believe instead that’s because the midwife is less able to leave you if you have an epidural.

all incidents I’ve experienced while giving birth in Scotland. All break down the trust between the mother and the healthcare providers at a time when it would be extremely helpful if both parties felt they were working hard for the same outcome.

100% agree.
I’d rather clean toilets than return to the NHS frontline.
That said, I moved across the world to practice and it isn’t much better here 😏
UK patients were far ruder and more entitled though.

I remember years ago when I was expecting my first there was a consultant from the Royal Free who was on a PR mission to encourage MNers to deliver in the Royal Free. (S)he used to answer queries and engage with patients to encourage them to come and deliver at the hospital. I always wondered how bad it must have been for any doctor to feel that they had to take that step.

3 pregnancies and deliveries - 2 NHS and 1 as public patient on the HSE (Ireland). Truthfully I couldn’t fault the NHS care bar lack of breastfeeding support on the other side. I was well taken care of. HSE - excellent post natal care which surprised me as there was a nurses strike when I had the baby. I had been expecting a total shit show .

I’m guessing bad or it had a bad reputation which meant mothers were avoiding it? I had no choice as the medical team (who were fab) I’m under are attached to the RF. I had my second at a different hospital which the team supported as I had put a complaint in about the RF. I had a good experience and the midwives were amazing and kind.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread. But have a friend who has just had a baby in the US.

I also caveat this with the fact that I had my babies in 2004 & 2006. But a few things have stuck out for me, there is no community midwifery service there ( are there even any midwives?) She unfortunately needed an emergency c-section, she was discharged on day 3 and nobody has visited them. She had to go to a peadiatrician's office on Friday with her baby for some checks, which she found very difficult just 5 days after. I couldn't understand why the healthy baby needed to be seen by a doctor, until I remembered all the community midwives did in the days following my children's births. DSis who had a baby in 2012 had a midwife come to the house and spend hours teaching her to latch the baby properly and DN was jaundiced.

I am sure things might be better in France or in Scandi Countries than in the UK, but I would say it's not as good in the US.