To think British maternity care must be among the worst in the developed world?

[ForestGoblin]

Nurses refusing to watch newborns when a mum needs to poo??? Nurses have got a professional and legal obligation to support patients to receive adequate personal care (not being compelled to poo yourself has got to be rung one of meeting that obligation).

Friends who have given birth in Ireland, france, south Korea, Switzerland were all given support to sleep, recover, be recognised as an injured person in need of recovery time.

British nurses trick new mothers into thinking they can't leave their babies for a minute on a bloody hospital ward (even when they've got numb legs).

Rise up, damnit!

I consider myself honest and I can’t see any reason other than understaffing. Not enough midwives and not enough healthcare assistants.

Just want to point out that most of the countries you compare with (France, South Korea, Switzerland and Norway) all charge for care so it’s not free like in UK. Switzerland is one of the most expensive in Europe.

Agree. I felt the nurses and midwives were shite in both my pregnancies. I had sections for both and couldn't move. I had to ask one nurse to help me feed ky son and she was huffing and puffing...I couldn't even stand thanks to the spinal I had. Then she placed him back on his side and got the arse when I asked her to out him on his back.
Other nurse wouldn't give me anything to eat after 3 days of labour and not being allowed food due to complications because ' the kitchen had closed'. I felt faint. Eventually I managed yo get to the shower the following day but had to wait until the evening until my husband could watch my son. I physically couldn't push his cot into the bathroom to be with me..nor would I want him in there dirty pads and blood in the shower unit...I discharged myself against medical advice. It's like living in a shit hole.

I had two babies on Medicaid in the US - so no, not all the comparison is with countries that charge or situations where care is charged. I got meals (which I ordered from a menu) delivered to my bed. I got frequent water top ups and encouragement to drink more water. I was offered snacks from a meal service worker who came around with a snack trolley between meals. I had en suite loo and shower for every delivery in both hospitals I used. I had dedicated nurses (RN) looking after me for their entire shifts. I had a breastfeeding consultant for my first two babies - declined for the next three as I figured I knew what I was doing. For first baby, I got a lesson in bathing DC. All baby supplies (diapers, diaper bag, wipes, little vests, little hats, swaddling blanket, ready mixed formula, manual Medela breast pump) and stuff like maternity pads, maternity knickers, perineal irrigation bottles and nipple shields for me were supplied by the hospitals. The hospitals also supplied hospital gowns and socks - I never had to bring a nightie that would get ruined.

Irish maternity care is free too even if you're not entitled to a medical card (state health provision). https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health-services/reproductive_health/maternity-and-infant-welfare-services/

There is no way an honest person can take every anecdotal story on mumsnet and say this is an evidence base for how all medical services are delivered. Hopefully all stories of medical negligence have been reported through the appropriate chains so they can be investigated fully.

I'm in Scotland and had such a horrific experience with my first 5 years ago we vowed to only have one. I ended up with PTSD after a litany of failures in care in what was then the best thought of maternity dept in my city. And then my implant failed and here I am pregnant again and horrified by having to go through it all again.

DH and I are both doctors and to this day we wonder if that went against us - we both had fairly grim times as medical students when we were on obstetric rotations. My care can't have just been put down to understaffing, there was a range of stuff that went actively against RCOG and SIGN guidelines. The midwives kept saying it was too early, too early for an epidural and the anaesthetist was far too busy to come anyway. DH examined me in the end and clarified that indeed it was not too early. And then he whatsapped his mate, who was the on call obstetrics anaesthetist, who appeared immediately and said he'd been having a quiet cup of tea and no one had paged him in over an hour. Again, that shit isn't to do with understaffing. I've never pulled the "I'm a doctor" card before or since that day.

I would 100% pay for private maternity care to try and get better care this time, but it doesn't exist at all in Scotland and I'd have to give birth in an NHS hospital anyway. I presume it's to do with risks of litigation meaning it isn't worth it for private providers. I can't say this thread has been very reassuring reading that anything has changed in the NHS 5 Yr on

With both children I've had to labour without gas and air until 10cm as they didnt believe i was in active labour because of contactions not being consistent times apart. Was such as 3min, 6 min, 2 min, 5 min gaps.

With my second they tried to send me home 45 minutes before he was born because they were saying I wasn't in active labour despite me explaining this had happened with my first.

Two hours after birth they asked if I wanted to go straight home from the delivery ward, when I said no because of intense after pains, wanting baby in hospital for at least a few hours, and not feeling ready for walking yet nevermind being in the car she sighed and said it was very busy and she'd have to call up and get them to try and make space.

Medical negligence is different from very poor quality nursing care delivered by nurses or midwives who make it clear they believe the mothers are nuisances, @NoDought

Now find where I said anecdotal stories anywhere are 'an evidence base for how all medical services are delivered'. I wasn't even talking about medical negligence, as you know perfectly well. And you also know that most new mothers will never report actual medical negligence either, and you know why. Your attitude demonstrates exactly the cultural problem that people are talking about.

It's true. 2001. Why would Iake it up?!

Unfortunately for people like you, it's difficult to gaslight all women all of the time about their own personal experiences and those of people they know.

I'm sorry to say it's absolutely true. Happened in 2001. Why would I make it up?!

You dont care !!!, what are midwives meant to do if they have 10 ladies and 10 newborns to care for, and only 1 of them. They have to priotise according to need. Thats a selfish attitude you have. Im not saying its right, but its the reality of the situation and this government just dosent care a damn. People like you arwnt helping the situation.

I left my son on the ward when I went to the bathroom and when I came back he was chocking on fluid in his lungs. Fluid the midwife had earlier assured me couldn’t be there. Dread to think what would have happened if I’d dawdled.

Had to run him to the nurses station, 12 hours post c section. He was ok but they were callous and one shouted at me for crying about it. The lack of care made me have elevated blood pressure like 150/100 so they wouldn’t let me leave the hospital. Beta blockers prescribed but they didn’t give them to me- but couldn’t work out why the meds weren’t working so kept doubling the dose. Wouldn’t let me leave and I developed an infection and was put on intrevenious antibiotics for five days.

Before I finally escaped three of them stood over me while I filled out a survey. It was phrased like I had to fill it in before I could go. Felt like I had to write something positive or they wouldn’t let me leave, I wanted to go so badly and had been kept in so for over a week with less than 4 hours sleep a night and 52 hour failed induction where I didn’t sleep, I thought I would die or DS would at more than one point under their “care”. But can’t complain further as it would contradict the hostage situation review. I was diagnosed and treated for ptsd and pnd. Now pregnant again 5 years later and in absolute fear of the post ward. I believe every woman who has shared her terrible experience, and I’m so sorry for all of us.

I had my baby end of 2019 in York Hospital. I was quite impressed with my care really, had a low risk pregnancy but we became high risk arriving on the ward. I felt they were in complete control of the situation, they made the best decisions for me at the time and when I got DD out, there was 7 medical staff in the room to look after us.
We had 2 hours of skin to skin and feeding in the delivery room and then another couple of hours to get myself showered and eat/drink before being taken up to the ward.
On the postnatal ward, there was just 4 bays but one was always empty so there was no feeling of being understaffed. At one point there was only me on the ward for about 6 hours. I initially had a really easy time with feeding so they left me to it but kept checking and woke me if DD looked to be ready to feed. There was absolutely no pressure.
Lovely lady came round with breakfast and left a menu to preorder my lunch. I also asked the midwife to take my baby so I could have a shower. Visiting hours were also excellent for parters who could stay all day and other visitors 1-8pm.
Sadly since 2019 York has got a poor inspection. I’m 8 months pregnant now and no longer in York so will likely have a completely different experience this time round. I’m really anxious about it to be honest, though being consultant led this time, I hope that may help

Oh you've done it now😂The pearl clutchers and pitchforks will be along shortly.

Remember next time you can discharge yourself against medical advice. They don't get to hold you hostage.

You can make a complaint now about what happened, demand assurances that they will not abuse you next time. Get it all documented in writing, tell them they're responsible for your pnd and ptsd. Make yourself a massive litigation risk. Bring your husband or someone else who'll fight your corner. You need someone who doesn't suffer from a misplaced trust in authority and can keep calm.

Are you talking about nurses or midwives, @Elephantsdontlikechocolate ?
And do you have figures to back up the aspersions you are casting wrt training and 'disregard for life'?

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/global-nursing/reality-for-overseas-nurses-in-uk-completely-different-to-image-sold-01-06-2023/

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/health-secretary-aware-of-under-banding-of-overseas-nurses-21-06-2023/?utm_source=Bibblio&utm_medium=Recommendation&utm_campaign=Recommended_Articles

If you read these, you can perhaps see that there is a reason for low morale among nurses coming to work in the NHS.

Presumably you had asked for that epidural? No one forced a needle into your back. Epidurals can increase the need for intervention so that was a risk you were hopefully told about. If you hadn't had an epidural then you probably wouldn't have been told to 'push like you're having a poo' because the urge would have taken over.

She wasn't asking for you to add to the twattery you know. You seem to have mistaken it for an invitation.

So it's the patient's fault for asking for a form of pain relief that is widely used and correctly administered in many countries?

I have had an epidural and definitely wasn't paralysed from the tits down. I felt the pressure and the urge to push. Something went wrong with the epidural that red78hot received.

I had my baby without a partner and the midiwives took baby for me for an hour while I slept between my friend and mum being with me, and babysat him at their reception desk area.
Usually new mums have a partner who can watch baby while the use the loo. You can also take baby into loo with you (I did this as post c section I needed help walking there and didn't want to leave him alone for too long)

Thank you, that’s really good advice that I will use. I’m at a different hospital this time which has a better reputation so hoping that is already a step in the right direction.

@SummerLovin82 not my experience, after 14 hours of not progressing I was told I had to have Pitocin and an epidural because no one has one without the other. Now the epidural had failed and was squirting into the mattress- but no one believed me for the whole of the day I had it. It stopped me walking but not the pain. I was told I was being precious and it was just pressure, not a full whack of pitocin causing contractions every 2 minutes for almost 10 hours. Nobody wants an epidural we just want the baby out safely while not feeling very safe at all. after that a midwife broke my hind waters with a large needle without my consent. With my screaming for her not to until she’d explained to me what and why. So a lot of things can happen that you don’t ask for.

It's not free here either, I pay a shit ton of tax for the NHS. Had a terrible birth experience too, as did 6 out of 7 friends. We're trained to be so grateful for the crumbs off the plate of our magical free NHS.