To think British maternity care must be among the worst in the developed world?

[ForestGoblin]

Nurses refusing to watch newborns when a mum needs to poo??? Nurses have got a professional and legal obligation to support patients to receive adequate personal care (not being compelled to poo yourself has got to be rung one of meeting that obligation).

Friends who have given birth in Ireland, france, south Korea, Switzerland were all given support to sleep, recover, be recognised as an injured person in need of recovery time.

British nurses trick new mothers into thinking they can't leave their babies for a minute on a bloody hospital ward (even when they've got numb legs).

Rise up, damnit!

Sorry, forgot, DS's care in SCBU for his first few days was brilliant - the midwives in there were so helpful, friendly, etc., which also extended to the HCAs and the receptionists. None of them could have done more. It was them who came up to the ward to wheel me down in a wheelchair to see him in his incubator, not the maternity ward staff! Funny how the SCBU midwives had time to do that, but the ward staff didn't!

I’m so glad I had my children in the 80s. I could tell a few negative tales about the birth experience, but the post-natal care at our NHS hospital was excellent. We had the choice of staying in for 2 days or 5 (or 24 hours by the time I had DC3). The 8 bed wards were very strict, ruled over by a ward sister. Those who prefer freedom of choice, having their DP at their bedside etc would no doubt have hated it, but I wouldn’t have wanted it any other way, it felt safe and comforting. Baby gowns, nappies, bedding etc all provided. New mums were shown how to bath, change and feed their babies. We had 3 decent meals brought to our beds every day. Then tea and toast for supper with a bottle of stout if you were breastfeeding, lights out and babies wheeled into the nursery overnight, and brought to you if you were breast feeding or opted to bottle feed yourself (some even chose to sleep through and let the midwives do it). Yes, dads were sent home as soon as you left the labour ward, but you were looked after properly from then on by midwives - there didn’t seem to be any staff shortage. Visiting was strictly 4 to a bed for one hour each evening, and another hour for one visitor just before lunch. There was a strict nap time (on your tummies, ladies!) for an hour mid afternoon - you couldn’t opt out! We even had gentle exercise sessions each morning, with self care advice.

And if we needed the toilet or a shower, babies would stay in their cots by the bed. They were perfectly safe - they were in secure wards and the only people in there were other mums and always at least one nurse at the desk. Everything was kept spotless. I opted for the longest stay every time.

I’m sure I was lucky in that we had a really good hospital, but it infuriates me to read some of these stories. Women and newborn babies deserve the best of care.

@Tippley that statistic is shocking!

The 'care' or lack of it, is terrifying. I don't even like to talk about my experiences. Suffice to say, pain is completely ignored ime.

Sounds like heaven...although I don't like the idea of babies going into a nursery overnight. I think it is important for a baby to stay with their mother. Other than that, sounds amazing 😊

As amazingly happy as I was to have my newborn baby in my arms, delivered safely - the three days I spent on hospital following my 3 days of labour and c section were absolutely awful. I got NO sleep. I was having trouble breathing as I was so exhausted. No help. Felt like such a nuisance calling the nurses to pass me the baby (couldn’t move the first day due to section). Couldn’t go to the toilet without just leaving my baby and hoping he wouldn’t wake and cry as nobody had time to stay with him for a couple minutes.
(covid times so very restricted visitor time so unfortunately my partner couldn’t help much).

Didn't complain about pnd ward and met many with worse experiences than me.

Did have serious cause for complaints with community MW in last place and did complain - it was in end accepted fault but got impression it was being managed away - problem there MW had worked in neighbouring trust which recently hit headlines as massive failing going back years and we complained about actual stuff we could prove but an attitude couldn't really complain about without fear out actual complaint would be dismissed.

DSis pg at same time different area made and was accepted to have grounds for complaint nothing really happened though found out other had as well - you'd hope at some point notes in files would hot some sort of critical mass but never heard of it happening.

In both our case we had a lot going on and babies to cope with.

Well unfortunately that's why they get away with it because women's are at their house most vulnerable and completely blown out then water with a baby, then birth and death they don't have the energy to complain but perhaps a partner it grandparents couldn't jot s a quick emailed to say..

Unacceptable care

This thread is cathartic as well as very sad. currently 36 weeks pregnant and petrified because all the hospitals in my area are hugely short staffed and have been downgraded/rated inadequate since I gave birth 3.5 years ago to ds. the difference in antenatal care is very apparent. Contradictory information (to the point I'm given or not given medication for someone else to say they don't know why/ why not), seen the same midwife twice. Computer system down constantly so no one knows my history at each appointment. Been booked for a MW appointment the day after my due date although have been told in no uncertain terms i will be induced and not allowed to go over (and this MW appointment is when i potentially will have a sweep). Just very disjointed, constant changing of which weeks I need to be seen, so many appointments I've turned up and they are like "why are you here..." I am self employed so not taking days off and losing ££ for fun. But the thought of the actual birth, I'm starting to panic and question why I am doing this again. And i didn't even have a particularly bad experience first time round; i was left to it for ages and i don't think i was monitored properly but nothing went wrong, except baby had low o2, heart murmer, low temperature so was taken into nicu 12 hours later. receptionist at nicu told me baby wasn't there. i still can't get over the feeling of thinking my baby had gone, being told he wasn't in nicu, i had no idea what was going on, just he had been whisked away from me and i was told to go there to find him. he was there. the receptionist was a lazy idiot. all the nicu staff were amazing. ds had great care. i could rest on the postnatal ward and he was being looked after very well. only one horrible male nurse in nicu who was upset ds was making so much noise when i was trying to feed him. we were on failure to feed pathway but apparently i should have been able to master it there and then because it was too loud. had fantastic breast feeding support and some amazing midwives. but seeing the chaos and noise on the post natal ward - it was medieval. really harrowing just to be in that environment. i was getting water for the ladies in my ward - they were all post section and couldn't move - but i was up and about, just had no baby with me so my heart was broken. i busied myself with pumping. i was too scared to pick ds up, he was on o2 and tube feeding. nicu was so peaceful and quiet. but limited visitors and visiting times. they let me stay in postnatal even when i was well enough to be discharged so it was easy for me to go and see ds and do his nappy changes. also it was good to pump next to him and use the industrial pumps they had in the hospital. postnatal ward was horrendous though. in some ways i was lucky ds was in nicu and I could get some rest. if they had kicked me out of the post natal ward i would have been sleeping on the sofa in nicu waiting area so i am grateful they were so accommodating.

It should be a right for the dad to be able to stay with the baby and mum, more woman are going to want DH there than those who don't want to be around men.

@sleepyscientist
Yeah let's put men's needs and rights first as usual, even on a bloody post natal ward 🙄. And no, it should be a right for a vulnerable woman who has just given birth to have access to proper medical care, and not just be based on a 'partner lottery ' where some women will end up alone and scared if they don't have a DH. But it's fine, let's think of the poor menz rights

My post natal care in London (2001) was awful. Nightingale ward with barely an inch between beds, nurses were run ragged, the only time one came near was to take my catheter out and then she was off. It felt like the whole thing took around 3 mins. A physio handed me a leaflet on pelvic floor exercises and then I went home not having had a wink of sleep in 48 hours. I also felt like I was blamed for having an assisted birth due to not pushing hard enough.

My second experience in Stirling was much better, baby taken away for a bit so I could get some sleep during the night. I was given tea and toast after the birth which seems like a small thing but wasn't at the time.

Not everyone has family and support and during COVID lots of people weren't allowed any support (some place STILL have strict restrictions)... its nice you are privileged enough to:
A) have family/visitors
and
B) be somewhere that allowed that
but that doesn't make you better than other people who are alone.

I agree OP it's a pile of poo

Both Dsis and I did complain in writing and follow up with e-mails and phone calls and meetings and I took advice from a support group about how not to get dismissed out of hand - ie stick to provable facts - both cases it was dealt with ie accepted by management with vague lesson learnt spiel at outcome.

It was way more than a quick e-mail and we both felt utterly dismissed in the end and that whole thing had been a waste of our precious time and energy.

We've more recently encounter dire "care" with Dad old age multiple conditions and Mum is worried complaining will make his care worse and we as a family don't have that spare capacity. I also can't reassure her she is wrong as both DSis and I felt we had poorer care post complaints as punishment by some health care staff.

It is WOMEN'S right to want support.

Maybe if we didn't have the awful antiquated wards with nothing but a bloody curtain it wouldn't be an issue.

Also FYI men ARE allowed to stay with their child, there is no law that says they can't and it is within their given rights. Some hospitals say they 'can't' but they do actually have the right to and can. Most hospitals now don't even say they can't anymore.

Places like the birth center I gave birth in are SPECIFICALLY set up for couples with double beds etc... so they can stay.

I've not had Time to read this thread but I suspect mine earlier may have inspired it.
(I wanted to offer help to another new mum but didn't want to be weird.)

I can say that the staff from every midwife, hca, domestic, doctor, the caterers etc have been absolutely tremendous. To the most exceptional standard of care they personally could provide. On that level the service has been outstanding, but that's down to the individuals themselves giving a fuck about patients. These people we must protect at all costs and champion beyond reason for the shit they do for very little thanks or pay.

But the staff are struggling, skeleton crews, people not taking breaks because of this, equipment is lacking or in some cases, missing.

It is time we rise up for women's health care. For those of us who needed sleep before PND kicked in, before those women with endo are sent home in pure agony, those women who are fobbed off with a headache when they're having a fucking haemorrhage.

We need to kick off, protect our wonderful NHS staff from the consultants to the receptionist.
We need a better maternity service and we deserve one.

I’ve only ever met lovely midwives in the NHS… I honestly don’t recognise the horrible descriptions of the profession on this thread.

Yes there will be bad apples, including those who have become desensitised and lost their compassion. But the vast majority are caring and compassionate, working in very difficult circumstances and managing high levels of risk on a skeleton staff.

I do believe lots of women have had terrible experiences but the level of vitriol here aimed at midwives is horrendous. No wonder they are leaving in droves if this is how they are viewed/ treated.

Mums aren’t all saints either!! Midwives do have to put up with a lot of crap from the families. In my ward there was a woman kicking off because her baby needed an injection for an infection “you’re not sticking that thing in my baby- she’s brand new” and idiot men being disrespectful/ loud/ snoring / really stinky feet and smelly dirty clothes.

I’ve seen verbal abuse, poor behaviour from families, which the staff have to manage and must become very wearing!

Agree, I was shocked at how bad it is. I felt there was no care, just box ticking. Baby and I had to stay 5 days because of a minor infection so had to have antibiotics. In this period we were never left for longer than a 2 hour period without someone coming in for obs, medication, or something or other. After 3 days of this I broke down and a midwife asked if it would be helpful to sync up mine and baby's observations so they are done at the same time, rather than someone coming to do hers then coming to do mine at another time.

I was like ??? Yes obviously??? Why isn't this done from day 1????

Once they took baby away at 11.30pm to give her antibiotics. While she was gone they gave me mine in IV. They brought baby back and left her in cot thing next to my bed, they had unswaddled her for her medicine and not swaddled her back so she was just lying there next to her blanket flailing and crying. I physically could not help her as I was attached to my IV and couldn't move or reach her. Sitting there having been awake for 40+ hours with a new crying baby unable to help her. Had to press my buzzer and ask a midwife to swaddle her for me as no one was around or paying attention to us.

I had no care, I felt like I was being tortured by lack of sleep. Afterwards I had anxiety and ptsd in the evening when it got to the time of day my husband would have to go as he wasn't allowed to stay with us. I dread another baby not because of pregnancy or birth but because I'm terrified about having to go back to that ward.

I had my DD in September 1973 and DS January 1976 my experience was like that described by Daisymaybe60. We were in 4 bedded wards plenty of midwives and HCA to help out you usually stayed in 7 days although 10 days for csection. An hours rest of an afternoon babies taken to nursery same at night time if you were breast feeding left a note on crib and they would come and wake you up to go to nursery to feed were you were greeted with hot drink and biscuits. Visitors were restricted none of this partners sleeping on the wards. It wasn't really till 2001 when DD had my 1st DGD realised how things had changed although then partners weren't allowed to stay overnight and visiting was still restricted. There wasn't a lot of help with breastfeeding luckily DGD knew what she needed to do to get her milk. When DD came home the midwife called around I was bathing DGD and the midwife said you certainly know what you are doing so I have no worries how things are going so wont need to come back every day as have other mothers who really need help and we are a bit short staffed as holiday time etc.. I realise there is such a shortage of midwives and Maternity services really need a lot more money pumped into them and maybe recruit a lot more HCA which could take some of the pressure off midwives.

Yes i completely understand what you mean. There are some lovely midwives. And I do bet they have to put up with some right arseholes. But that shouldn’t mean the rest of us have to experience neglectful care and isn’t really an excuse. Snoring and stinky feet shouldn’t really be a factor here should it.

One of my NCT friends shouted at the midwives. It was during covid and her care after her section was so shit that she self discharged. Her DH came in during his 1 hour slot to help take all the things back to the car, and they wouldn’t let him back in at mins past the hour to help her with the baby to take them to the car. So she shouted at them.

I’ll start by saying I’m in total agreement with the neglectful care and bad attitude of some NHS staff. In my experience London maternity wards are rushed off their feet with quite a range of mothers or pregnancies with complications. The government have left us high and dry from a safe staffing perspective. I’ve been told that the levels are safe… eight mums and eight babies to one Midwife postnatally. If one midwife is off sick or is taken to another ward… that number increases.

Add in breaks (if you’re lucky) you might also be documenting or eating your food by the computer. We’ve got computers on wheels now too so we have to bring them into the staff room on our break, if we are behind. Patients, partners, in laws constantly asking us for updates on everything from discharge, medication, pain, breastfeeding, food, parking, visiting times, why their family can’t have food drinks and their own beds… as you can imagine from the minute you step onto the ward you blink and 12 hours has gone by.

The hospital management want to strip us of everything, no funding, no staff, no cover, no supplies, broken medical equipment, not enough food for patients, it’s taken a toll on every department. The more we complain the more gaslighting that takes place. We’re all drowning and the money is wasted on things we don’t need and not enough for things we do. We can’t just buy it off Amazon it all needs to be approved from higher up. A lot of stuff is being removed as they don’t want to provide it anymore so we are just left struggling and being blamed for lack of resources to care for patients. Staff are hired and are lazy and they know they can get away with it, so the more conscientious staff are lumbered with the hard graft.

If you are a good midwife with a good caring heart, you will struggle mentally because you cannot physically give every patient good care, this weighs on our conscience. I’ve known staff band 2 and band 9 who stay behind after their shift, a lot of it is documentation needs updating. You have to prioritise who needs what more. If you are a midwife with a bad attitude, you will not do your best. All of your patients will have a negative experience. For those who’ve had bad experiences I’m betting either your midwife was rushed off their feet OR you were unlucky enough to get stuck with a midwife who’s got a bad attitude or is lazy. Most of the time the midwife just has to juggle the care he or she gives.

It doesn’t matter how much we complain our head of midwifery or CEO can’t do anything about it. To a certain extent if they admit they are struggling they could be shut down, so all senior managers cover it up as it would end their career potentially if their department was closed or rated unsafe by CQC. The government need us all to write in to our MPs and be totally honest about our experience as staff and patients. Can I ask how many of you have actually made a written complaint about the care you received? If not, how do you expect anything to change? The staff try and no one listens to us. It’s all on you guys to keep complaining so that someone will help us. You can go directly to your MP, CQC and PALS, hospital CEO and even news. It will not last much longer like this until people die.

Midwives are struggling and no one cares, like a poster said previously managers they’re all hiding in their office. They tell us to escalate if we are struggling then they gaslight us and make us feel incompetent when we can’t cope. Horrible poisonous place to work thankfully I will be leaving soon. Bullying is rife too, if you try and speak up you will be gaslighted. The bully always wins and most of them have been employed for 25 years in the NHS. It’s very difficult to sack someone so they move them to a different department if you’re lucky, otherwise you’ll be stuck trying to work with them.

I’m going to be writing to my MP when I get a chance too, I hope some of you will too. As an NHS worker I’m so angry and upset reading your experiences today. I always try my best to help mums before, during and after their birth, I wish I had more time to spend. All I can say at the end of my shift is I tried my best with the resources I had. Although it doesn’t stop it from hurting or stop us from feeling guilty 🥲 xx

I'm assuming you're a nurse or midwife. Recommend you revise medical assault and consent...

Very much feel for you and I can also identify with your experience of feeing ‘tortured’ there. I’m pregnant with my second and I am under several consultants, the specialist midwife team and perinatal mental health because I am so terrified of going back to their care to give birth.

then shouting at me because I tried to take my baby into the bathroom, no one to hold her, so I peed myself standing in front of the bathroom doors.

Did your baby not have a cot to be in? Why do babies have to be held all day, they're not going to run away! Not addressing the apparent shortcomings in care but if a mother takes the attitiude that my baby cannot be put down while I go to the loo is that not setting up problems for the future?

When I had my first (during Covid) a nurse watched my baby, while she did admin at the main desk so I could get some sleep after a very traumatic birth leading to EMCS. So my experience is that nurses do help.

Various other help as well. Showed me how to bath the baby. Got me a coffee etc.