To wonder whether having kids makes you "better"?

[Finlesswonder]

I don't have kids.

My mum said she was so scatty and forgetful until she had kids and then she couldn't "afford" to be anymore.

I'm wondering whether kids can make you "better" in a sense, for example if you're a panicky or anxious person, did having kids make you be "forced" to relax a little more or get out of your own head, if you were lazy before them did having them force you to be more active, etc? Or is it more usual for it to be the other way around, can having kids "worsen" unhelpful traits?

I have two kids. My sister has none. Has this made me ’better’ than her? Of course not, what a lot of bollocks.

It has made me different, that’s for sure. I’m not the same ‘me’ as I would have been, had I not had children. But ‘better’? No. 🙄

This is about individual parents and how they feel they have changed. It doesn't have to become a childfree v parent thing. It's like you literally came on here to make it about you and your choices.

The op is asking for help with an issue.

I really don't think having children makes anyone 'better' or there wouldn't be any children taken into care, no children would be neglected, abused or killed by their parents or step parents, there would be no posts on here about going no contact with negligent, abusive or bad parents, no one would need therapy because of childhood trauma and no one would ever walk out on their children.

Having children because they might make you 'better' is a terrible reason to have children. The only good reason to have children, for the sake of those children, is that you would be a good parent and would be able to raise those children well.

I have no idea if there’s any scientific support for this, but for me, I’m pretty sure giving birth to my DD cured my anxiety and depression. I’d had it for about 11 years at varying levels of intensity, from just about coping day to day, to signed off work, on anti-depressants and having to go home and live with my mum for 6 months. Due to pregnancy complications I almost died having my DD prematurely and after I’d had her my brain went through some sort of hard reset.

It was like I’d been turned off and turned back on again. 17 years later and I haven’t had a problem since. It was like I was a live wire grounded. I’m delighted with my life. I’m not recommending becoming of a parent as a cure for depression and anxiety (if anything, you probably shouldn’t), but it really worked for me.

I think it changes you. I wouldn't say for the better, necessarily.

I think it’s generally better to try and work on things yourself rather than hope having kids has some kind of magical effect.

I’ve no idea if it can work - it certainly had the opposite effect on both my parents - but it feels like something I wouldn’t put on a child.

(And no, there’s no rule that says that parents are less selfish and self-absorbed than non-parents. It depends on the person. We’ve done this trope to death by now surely.)

So in that sense it made me better. It didn’t make me think I was a better person than anyone else though. That would be mad!

From what I see on here, it makes some people completely lose all common sense, panicking and fussing over their kids even when the "kids" are teenagers or adults!
The reality is, we're all different and all affected differently by our life experiences.

Firstly I don’t think it majes you a better person. Some horrible people have kids, many fantastic people do.

Anything that you challenge yourself to do will help you grow and develop new skills so of course people will have lots of stories of growth

parenting has taught me to be a morning person, to be much more patient and to explain things much more clearly 😂

Well it made my mum abusive

She's only abusive to her offspring so before children she was a normal albeit narcissistic person I imagine

Having children gave her the outlet for her abusive side

That said had MN been around when we were younger she probably would have come on here and said it made her more selfless too, she does think she's the perfect, loving, giving parent that she really is not

As opposed to the posts before this poster commented, talking about their selfish childfree friends, have you pulled them up on their comparisons too?

It may make you a better person, or it may not @Finlesswonder , but most people will vote YABU on here, because for some reason despite this being MUMSNET, there seems to be a high density of posters who aren't keen on children - or mums!

I'm really sorry you went through that.

Really...... ?

Or maybe the people voting are like those of us who have said it didn't make them a better person or being a parent didn't make their parents better as they were abusive.

It's not about not liking kids or mums

Its about understanding that not all mums are "better" some are "worse"

And from a feminist viewpoint it should be okay to consider women to be enough without making out that they have to have children to be better. Women are enough, they dont have to be more.

So no parenting does not make people more loving and caring.

@DameCurlyBassey Nowhere did I say it does!

The downside to the mums are better, more selfless etc rhetoric is it can sometimes feel like society is denying your abuse

Because how can your mum simultaneously be a perfect, better, selfless human being, and be the person who abused you

Some mothers are absolutely fucking wonderful, some are average (in a good way) and some are utterly awful. And it doesnt help the children of the awful ones to pretend that all mothers are wonderful.

I think I’m the same as the person I was before I had my son, pretty much.

Certainly not ‘better’ except insofar as having a small person around asking questions about how the world works and expecting you to be a good person, makes you think about what you’re doing.

Absolutely this. I had to have a lot of therapy on this exact point. I’m so sorry for what you’ve gone through.

'I'm so fucking sick of this misogynist trope that you're a selfish person if you don't have kids.'

I'm sick of the misuse of the words:
a) misogynist (I agree that this is a poor idea, but what is specifically women-hating about it?)
b) trope (it doesn't mean idea, it means figurative language).

Me too.

Kids are more likely to be abused and killed by their parents than by anyone else.

See also "killed by mum's boyfriend du jour."

Not to mention neglect, emotionally toxic situations, shitty blended families and other ills.

I think in some ways it is mysoginistic though because its a thing that's used against women

Men tend to get less judgemental comments about being childfree, but also are not seen as being "better" to the same extent for having children

Therefore when the whole "childfree women are selfish" thing is trotted out, but "childfree men are selfish" isn't, then there is potentially some ingrained misogyny behind that

Maybe it's something around women being expected to be the carers, the homemakers, the nuturers. And then women who choose to be childfree go against that societal expectation. And are penalised by being called selfish (and this is a frequent word I see used in conjunction with childfree people)

So I think in some ways it is mysoginistic

I think it’s inherently misogynistic to suggest that a certain class of women is inherently better than another.

I have become far more scatter brained and forgetful (due to lack of sleep). And far more "selfish" in that my priority is my family and not my (public sector) job or anything else. I'm less vain (no time to care) but that's about it.