Parents tried to pick DC up from holiday club when I didn’t ask them to and I’m in the wrong!

[TheyTriedToTakeDC]

Background: Split with ExH in 2017 due to his violence and control. In the proceeding year he threatened me and threatened to kidnap DC (aged 2 at the time) and take them abroad so I never saw them again. He then repeated the threats in court for the CAO, his dad also got me in a headlock outside court and threatened to kill me so that (quote) “DC was in their rightful home with their father” because of this ExH, and Ex-PILs are banned from picking DC up from school or childcare.

ExH does have supervised contact, it’s supervised by another member of his family who’s never threatened me and I am happy to supervise but they do not have permission to take DC without me knowing either.

Every activity club, childcare or holiday club as well as DCs primary school I’ve shown the CAO to has always said “Unless we have verbal confirmation from you while your stood in front of us, we will not release DC to anyone but you”.

I love doing school or holiday club (HC) run so I don’t ask others to the pick-up. I like hearing about DCs day. Occasionally I’ve needed someone else to pick DC up so I will tell the club or ring school to let them know. In an emergency there is a process in place so school/holiday club can verify that it’s a genuine emergency situation and take DC. There is one other person I add to the pick-up list in case on an emergency, a cousin of mine whose also got DC at the same school.

Today DC was at HC while I worked. Parents rang at lunch to ask if they could pick DC up, I said no as I had booked to take DC out for dinner immediately after HC and I’d paid a bit more for them to stay until 4.15pm (normal pick up is 3.15pm) but if they wanted to pick up or have DC another day let me know and I’d arrange it. It’s a new holiday club for this year that parents haven’t been to or picked up from before.

They decided to go anyway and get DC.

I say get DC; they didn’t manage it. HCs safeguarding protocol kicked in, they moved DC and the other children into another room and rang me, when I said I was on my way to get DC and I didn’t give permission for DC to go with anyone else but me.

Of course, HC Lead (HCL) said this to my parents, who started shouting and saying it was ridiculous as they’re DCs grandparents and if they bought DC to them DC would confirm who they were. HCL apparently said if they could prove they have PR they’d let DC leave. This annoyed my stepdad and he apparently swore and called the HCL a t**t. HCL said if parents didn’t calm down the police would be called, and they didn’t so police where called.

I got there at same time as police, my stepdad especially is still wound up shouting and swearing. When I got there he said “See mums here now she’ll tell you who I am”.

It was all sorted out quite quickly, HCL explained to police and I showed the court order and I also had to prove who I was via ID (which is fine, I have no issue with this and carry my driving license for this purpose). DC was brought to me and we went out to eat. Police decided not to take it any further and HCL said it would be forgotten about despite them being abusive.

I’ve had a long text from my mum saying that it was a bit daft, I could of given permission over the phone for them to take DC and they could have had a lovely evening with DC and bought them home to me. They’ve said next time I need help with DC they’ll be more reluctant to help and this has tarnished their thinking of me as they now think I don’t trust them with DC.
I have replied to explain I couldn’t see through the phone to verify it was them. ExHs family have made threats as recently as Christmas to take DC and I couldn’t risk it. I’d rather be safe than sorry, they don’t mean DC any harm but if they’d been ExH or his family and the HCL had just let DC go they’d be the first ones to complain and be calling for jobs to be lost and compensation.

I got a one line reply of “Exactly how we thought it was”.

Why am I the bad guy for protecting my DC? AIBU to have not let DC go with them?

I thought the same.

You said no not today and then they went and did it anyway!
I genuinely cannot believe the disrespect of them!

I am raging on your behalf.

It doesn’t matter about the back story of the ex and why there’s a court order etc because no one should be collecting a child without their parents say so.

Well done to you, the HC and the police.

I would absolutely go low contact with them from now on as that is awful and I’d struggle to ever speak to them again.

Its awful they did it and now not even apologising and they’re trying to turn it around in you!
How fucking dare they!

I’m sorry you’ve got such a shit mum and step dad.

Wtf is wrong with your parents??

@RoadSignFool Are you just playing devil’s advocate?
It wasn’t just an “inconvenient day” for OP to let them pick the kids up, she had booked to take them out to dinner, and told her parents that. And they went ahead and tried to pick them up anyway. Without telling her.
These are not people who will listen to her. She’s tried, they don’t. And any person with an ounce of sense would realise that HCs don’t hand kids over to someone who says they’re the GPs.

You parents were rung but you can see throught your phone thst it was them so why didn't you do that? You didn't help matters by adding to the they are possibly my ex parents drama.

*wrong

Omg I would be furious! This issue isn't about your ex or the court order (my own children's father has a no contact order) so isn't allowed to see them. But don't get the issues mixed up.
It's even worse that your mum and step dad have done this knowing what you have already been through. I think you need to really think about what kind of examples and roll models they are to your child. They sounds totally and utterly dreadful I really don't think I would want them in my child's life. They should be supporting you not undermining you.

That horse had already bolted though, hadn’t it? Poor HCL ending up with a ton of stress and admin. It is highly unlikely that they would have shot the messenger if OP had engaged directly.

And has been pointed out, OP would've turned up to see her children gone and not known who'd actually taken them.

I don't quite understand why "ease of life for the HCL" is the be-all and end-all for this one poster? Over adhering to safeguarding procedure?

The OP’s mum and stepfather are horrible people who think that what they want is more important than OP and her children. Kids need routine, security and certainty. Not GPs changing the family’s plans for the evening and turning up without warning at the HC when the children were expecting their mum to collect them.

I think @RandomMess has nailed it. Stepfather is a bully, and decided to show OP that she can’t say no to him. He failed, so now he and OP’s mother are trying to punish her.

Your stepfather becoming rude and abusive has clearly indicated what sort of man he is. I would nof be letting him near my kids after that.
And that's without all the other stuff.

I'd prefer to think of it as real life practice of safeguarding techniques.
The only people that behaved appallingly were ops parents, grown adults responsible for their own behavior, none of which the op is culpable for.

But OP had already said no because she’d made plans with her LO.

Why would she cancel her plans so they can take the child on that day when OP had already said no and that they can do it another day instead.

I'd like to talk for a minute about the impact of narcissist grandparents on a child.

My paternal GM was a narc and DF struggled to stand up to her. She would pull stunts like turning up at the house with neither invitation nor prior warning. It meant that my DM was constantly off-balance in her own home, waiting for the next unannounced flying visit.

After the divorce, it got worse. Whilst I was staying at my DM's, GM would turn up, go through my belongings, and throw away clothes that DM had paid for that GM thought "weren't suitable" for me. DF was too chickenshit to tell her "no" until my DM said she'd go back to court to get his access reduced because he couldn't be trusted to take care of my clothes that she had taken me shopping for to keep at his place to wear when I was with him and I couldn't be expected to wear one outfit for a whole week nor to carry all my clothes for the week to him on top of my school uniform and books etc. My DF was too chickenshit to even warn me that GM had gone through my stuff and only confessed when I had an (unrecognised at the time because I was undiagnosed) autistic meltdown whilst tearing my room and then the wider house apart trying to find a skirt she had binned. I think it was when I started screaming at my sister to "give my skirt back you thieving bitch" and she started crying because she was innocent that he realised that he couldn't pretend that GM had done nothing.

I'd like @RoadSignFool in particular to think how distressing it is for a child, autistic or not, to turn up to one parent's house only to find that their possessions in their room have been moved and disposed of by someone else without permission. It's theft and it's abusive and it's frightening and disorienting and you start second-guessing yourself about whether you actually did own something and you can't trust the sanctity of your room any more. The next thing that GM bins might a favourite toy that she thinks you should have grown out of by now, or she might get you into trouble with school or the library or a friend by binning a borrowed book or CD that she has decided "isn't appropriate".

GPs who don't respect the "little" boundaries like not picking your kid up from HC when told not to or not turning up to your house unannounced won't respect the big boundaries, like not forcing a violin and lessons on your kid who doesn't want to play the violin and not throwing your kid's stuff away. It can be really hard recognising these actions as abusive, especially when a course of violin lessons looks like generosity. The GPs offering respite care and child care looks like generosity but there is alway a price tag, and the price is controlling the child. You have to recognise that it's about control, about them moulding your child into what they want. And it starts with ignoring the little boundaries.

As an adult, I've struggled with boundary-setting. I've had to use tools like The Freedom Programme, which are intended for DV survivors, to recalibrate what my boundaries should look like and learn to detect boundary breaches. Yes, I am saying that narc GPs can harm a child's understanding of healthy boundaries and self-trust (e.g. trusting my own memory that my mum bought me a bikini or tank top for my guide camp even though I now can't find it because GM decided that they weren't Victorian enough in terms of modesty) in the same way an abusive husband can harm a woman's understanding. The harm that narc GPs do to children should not be underestimated, it lasts for life.

You're being ridiculous. I work in a school and we NEVER let kids go with people we have never met before. It's absolute basic safeguarding. Of COURSE it's a safeguarding issue. And maybe you need to rethink your own boundaries around your children's safety if you have children. Because it really is not acceptable for any random relative to decide to turn up to a childcare facility or school against the wishes of the parents, unknown to the facility, and demand to take the child. It's absolutely astounding that you think OP could have "eased" that situation by simply verifying on the parents' mobile that it was them and allowing them to take her, even though she had arrange to pick her up herself and take her out.

We DO do that phone verification sometimes, because usually it's normal pick up time and there is no sign of the usual pick up person, but a stranger, or someone the staff on duty that day is unfamiliar with. It usually means the parent forgot to inform the office of the change of pickup arrangements. We wouldn't automatically let them go but call the parent to confirm. We sometimes ask for ID if we need to.

Grandparents can huff and puff as much as they like, stamping their feet saying "look, she knows who I am, don't you, sweetie?" and things like "I used to pick up last year, why is it a problem now?", I just think they're idiots. How is a totally different teacher supposed to know who they are, just because they picked up from the same school last year? 🙄

It's just embarrassing for the kids, I feel so sorry for them with their grandparent kicking off. I'd feel ashamed if it was my parents and be emailing the school a letter of apology and basically not allowing my parents to mind them again. It's awful behaviour, OP. Shameful.

Your not the bad guy. If your parents can't see this you have a problem.
How reassuring that the HCs Safeguarding process was carried out to the letter. That's exactly the sort of response I would hope for.
As for your parents, even taking away all the issues relating to Safeguarding, why on earth did they think it was acceptable to ride rough shot over your very specific instructions? They said its as if you dont trust them. Well yes, they've just proven they can't be trusted! They sound very entitled. I'd be waiting for an apology!

I’m gobsmacked at your stepfather, he sounds like an aggressive arsehole, not what you need having escaped an abusive relationship. What on earth were they thinking, going anyway when you’d said no. 🤬

Your parents are clearly the ones primarily at fault here, if they hadn't disregarded your explicit wishes none of this would have happened, so you absolutely don't owe them any kind of an apology or explanation - they should be apologising to you and your DC.

BUT I can sort of understand the posters who are saying it would have been very easy for you to have checked who it was - to be clear I don't think you were under any obligation to do this for your parents' sakes, but it would have made things much easier for the holiday club providers - not doing so clearly escalated the situation for them and put (usually pretty badly paid) workers in a very awkward and potentially aggressive situation which could potentially have been avoided.

Not to mention the use of very limited police resources - the incident will have been prioritised as a child safety issue which could have meant someone else's burglary etc didn't get attended, when in actual fact there wasn't any threat to your kids, and you were 99% sure of this (and could have easily made 100% sure) at the time.

I can understand why you did it which is why I wouldn't go as far saying YABU - but I think at the very least a nice letter to the HC apologising and explaining how grateful you are (if you refer to how stringent their safeguarding is and how confident this has made you for your children's safety etc. they could even keep it on file and use it for appraisals etc.), ideally a bottle of something or chocolates would be appropriate.

I'd like @RoadSignFool in particular to think how distressing it is for a child, autistic or not, to turn up to one parent's house only to find that their possessions in their room have been moved and disposed of by someone else without permission.

Sure, I can think about that if you like but it has absolutely zero relevance to any of the points I have made.

Have you read all the OP’s posts in this thread? Her parents DO NOT LISTEN TO HER. They have done things like this repeatedly. She’s told you that. They think they have priority and have more of a say than she does. Do you actually think they’d have said “Oh ok then OP, we’ll go home”. Because that isn’t what her parents do.

Wow, well done those holiday club staff. I was in a very similar situation when my DD was little and the care staff let her go with my dad. I had no idea he even wanted to pick her up. I just got to nursery and they told me a man had picked her up a couple of hours earlier, but it was all fine as she seemed to know who he was and was happy to go with him. FFS! My ex wasn't even allowed supervised access and had an injuction against him because of his continuing violence, and despite this nursery let her go with the first unknown to them bloke who turned up early to collect her.

@CurlyhairedAssassin do give over with the patronising tosh about rethinking my own boundaries in relation to my own child.

How, when her phone is already engaged with the call from HC?

Why should she have to when GPs have already been told no?

Why are you still asserting that she's unreasonable for either: failing to predict his abusive outburst; or predicting his abusive outburst and failing to throw her child to him as an appeasing sacrifice?

Because telling the HCL to be on the alert because these people may be the abusive ex family is completely different to telling them to gatekeeper because your parents are being annoying by not respecting your booking at Pizza Express. It is very unfair indeed to the HCL.

Oh come on, her phone would be engaged is the best you can do? Talk about clutching at straws! Obviously she hangs up, calls her parents, then calls back.