The "strong female lead"

[Sarah5q]

Hi,
I'm basing this on reports about the new Snow White movie and how much the movie is being changed and it just got me thinking and I thought it'd be interesting to hear other people's opinions or perspectives.

I am a big fan of the original Snow White. She was my favourite princess growing up and I find it a shame that the story has been belittled in the upcoming movie. Yes, she was kissed by a prince at the end but surely the main concept of the film is kindness and her friendship with the dwarves?

This post could be super long if I wrote all my details but why does every female these days need to have a "strong" and "powerful " story?
What is wrong with being the "shy, quiet" one? Surely you can still be "powerful" in other ways.

And in the interviews, the actors are saying "Snow white won't be saved by a prince". Fair enough, it was all a bit quick. But rather than change that aspect entirely, why not just "fill out" the story and develop the relationship of snow white and the prince.
There are some women out there who do dream of having that family-lifestyle and having their happily every-after with their "prince charming". Not every woman wants to be that 'female boss" narrative that seems to be going around in Hollywood.

Maybe I'm completely missing the point or maybe I'm speaking rubbish and make no sense but I think I'm just tired of having that "girl boss" narrative rammed down my throat as if wanting to be anything other than that is "dated".

Because it’s virtue signalling and makes the film makers looks all progressive. Disney will learn their lesson the hard way.

You’re not wrong. Tv drama is all but unwatchable nowadays for being inclusive and empowering and not upsetting anyone.

I suppose because it shows women and girls they can be strong and powerful which is a great thing, typical female characters tend to be accessories to male characters, subservient, passive and needing to be saved/rescued/chosen by men. I don’t think we need to see more shy and quiet women who only dream of being picked by men, we’ve had plenty of that throughout time.

I expect she’ll also somehow physically overpower a baddy man/men 🙄

Are any of the live action remakes anyone’s favourite Disney film? To me they just seem cynical IP renewals, but perhaps young kids do love them more?

Having started on this path, they can’t stop now or surely they’ll be accused of backtracking.

There were a couple of Snow White films done a few years back where she is strong and confident but also falls in love. I think staring Kristen Stewart and lily collins.

not sure another one needs to be added to the archives unless it’s a live action remake of the cartoon

also don’t understand how gal gadot wouldn’t be fairest of them all - so suggests ageism to me as Snow White takes over at 18 because youth is valued in beauty standards for women. Not very woke..

Why can’t we have a film where a shy introvert succeeds in life through quiet confidence and without having to become a sassy kick ass clever clogs?

Yesss!

Ooooo okay, there is this 'test' in a films where you identify how many times 2 women have a conversation that doesn't revolve around men. To pass the test, it just needs to happen once (I think). It doesn't happen as often as you think.
It's supposed to show how women are represented in film.

Some modern films that fail the test are:
The Avengers
Avatar
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Lord of the Rings
A Star is Born
Toy Story 2
Eternal Sunshine
(most of the) Harry Potter films

etc

I don't think we necessarily need more 'Girl Boss' films, but we do need more female characters in realistic situations.

Bechdel Test

It's an interesting question op, for we are still measuring women by how good they are at things men are biologically designed to do. Speed, strength, aggression. We don't ever seem to measure men by the things women are biologically better at though do we. Endurance. Flexibility. Nurturing. (Yes, yes, men and women can have both these qualities in abundance, but our physical and hormonal make up gives a head start.)
Female politicians for example are celebrated for being as aggressive as men (Thatcher, Raynor) and everyone ignores the fact that actually many women have good diplomacy and negotiation skills that are far more useful in leading. Nope. We celebrate those who imitate men best, even though in the modern era the men's way is not always the best way.

I think Disney got it right with the live action Cinderella. The original she was a doormat, but the remake tempered her kindness with a sense of self and assertiveness. It added to canon rather than broke it.

To a certain extent they did this with Jasmine and Belle as well, although their added depth is clunky imo and doesn't add much. Mulan was awful because by giving her supernatural power it robs the original story of meaning which was about bravery and hard work. It also makes her super unrelatable like all of these female characters who are good at everything. We are flawed and we want characters like us. An action dolly is no better than a Barbie. Perfection is something we should be moving away from not toward.

In the Little Mermaid they totally strip her agency by making the first time she leaves the water to be for a man, and in giving her amnesia so she has no purpose and drifts aimlessly through the movie. Both her and Snow White tell me Disney have bought into the kind of progressiveness that only empowers women they like and dismisses those they don't.

I'm not a huge fan of snow white from a feminist point of view, but they don't need to rewrite her good qualities. They could make a movie that celebrates her strengths and has others appreciate her for herself rather than as a knock-off marvel character.

because being a sassy kick ass clever clogs gets you success!

also we are measuring success all wrong.
It‘s obvious when you read mn everyday that a tonne of women rate their success by having a man and babies and a happy home. Ain’t nothing wrong with that, but it’s not interesting as a film.
Also, as a pp mentions, there are plenty of this stereotype already. Girls and women see it everywhere. At home, at school. Giving voice to the sassy kick ass girls is good. It needs balance.

Studio Ghibli heroines fit this description. More popular than Disney with my girls. The female leads are relatable and the animation is beautiful.

So they can't come up with new decent material so copy the original then change it so they can pat themselves on the back and say to each other 'see are we great box tickers'

What is the point? Lack of imagination?

But what's wrong with having both? It doesn't erase or replace the first version. And if people don't like it, it won't make money.

These character types are all very one dimensional though aren't they.
I don't want another sassy kiss ass character who is a clever clogs. Unrealistic.

How about Rapunzel? Clumsy, trusting and adventurous
Or Moana, dutiful, brave and nurturing
Or Tiana, hardworking, kind but one track minded.

Characters should be flawed and go beyond 'types'. Disney started getting good at this. What happened?

By kick ass I mean women who fight like men and can defend themselves. The stereotypical scene where the prince thinks he can outdo her but then she shows him! Totally unnecessary and should we be reaching our girls that with a bit if strength they can fight off a man?

by clever clogs - all these women are cleverer then the men they come across or ‘equal’ to them. Nothing wrong with praising intelligence but is that a role model for the girls who aren’t top of the class

by sassy - the smart arse comments that in the real adult world no one would put up with

I just think those aren’t necessarily things we should be wanting our girls to aspire to either! It’s one dimensional and has become a stereotype.

id much rather my dd aspires to be the evil queen - a bit of ruthlessness never did anyone any harm and she has true self belief. I mean maybe not the poisoning part…

I think they're only doing all the live action for the copy rights

It's also been done. Twenty plus years ago we had Xena, Buffy and Scully. It's not a good thing that we haven't progressed beyond nineties characterisation and in most cases made it worse.

Yes Buffy was strong. But she was caring and unashamedly girly. She embraced womanhood rather than imitating men. She was clever but she used books when her intuition fell short. She knew how to outsource.

Scully worked as part a team Sam's girlbossing.

Whereas all these new female leads seem to only embrace fighting, assertiveness and dominance.
They're one dimensional just like sleeping beauty and snow white were, just this time it's the opposite qualities they embody.

Although all the wokeness is done to still be acceptable for the international market - so no princess charming instead of the prince for example because gay relationships don’t sell in some of the biggest markets

it’s so blatantly cynical wokewashing

If the original was so bad (or good) why do they need to change it?

Are the writers not capable of doing their own thing?