The "strong female lead"

[Sarah5q]

Hi,
I'm basing this on reports about the new Snow White movie and how much the movie is being changed and it just got me thinking and I thought it'd be interesting to hear other people's opinions or perspectives.

I am a big fan of the original Snow White. She was my favourite princess growing up and I find it a shame that the story has been belittled in the upcoming movie. Yes, she was kissed by a prince at the end but surely the main concept of the film is kindness and her friendship with the dwarves?

This post could be super long if I wrote all my details but why does every female these days need to have a "strong" and "powerful " story?
What is wrong with being the "shy, quiet" one? Surely you can still be "powerful" in other ways.

And in the interviews, the actors are saying "Snow white won't be saved by a prince". Fair enough, it was all a bit quick. But rather than change that aspect entirely, why not just "fill out" the story and develop the relationship of snow white and the prince.
There are some women out there who do dream of having that family-lifestyle and having their happily every-after with their "prince charming". Not every woman wants to be that 'female boss" narrative that seems to be going around in Hollywood.

Maybe I'm completely missing the point or maybe I'm speaking rubbish and make no sense but I think I'm just tired of having that "girl boss" narrative rammed down my throat as if wanting to be anything other than that is "dated".

Snow white the original is bloody awful though. She rocks up at the dwarf house and promptly cleans and cooks for all of them while they whistle at her.

Must copyright😂

There are so many options to do these things. Lota of the time the excuse is "well it will be a plop since know one knows them". Yeah, so use the known ones to gather interest by injecting them in a bit.
Think of Marvel, DC etc. They can make a completely unknown character, not even from comic books, make a movie and put Thor at the beginning, little bit throughout maybe (and posters) and et voila. Famous (unless it's really incredibly shit story).

I wonder if anyone tries to make 1000 an 1 nights now

snow white is definitely if it’s time but does it need remaking at all - there were already 2 a while back which were decent enough.

do they think no one will watch it if it doesn’t have an already known story attached? They didn’t have that problem with moana or braveheart or even frozen

also think the actress looks ridiculous in the iconic yellow dress - it doesn’t work outside cartoon! Maybe they will do some cgi

I think that's more that the dress is bit crap. I've aeen better cosplayera made...

probably - is this low budget!!

looking at the casts of the other 2 the evil queens were Charlize Theron and Julia Robert’s - definitely has the more ‘fun’ role!

Bechdel herself says that that test was never meant to be used in the way it is. The Fast and Furious films pass it, FFS.

So many people interpret it as "STRONG female characters" instead of "strong female CHARACTERS" - i.e. women who have clearly defined character traits that aren't pigeon holed into stereotypes, or change at the flick of a switch to suit a man.

Looka like they went to Toys are us for it tbh.
Googl snow white cosplay. They could havw bought some of these🙈

Yes this exactly.

It's not just about leads either. Apparently even for non-speaking extras the sex ratio is around 70:30. Same for actual roles, even though for a lot of them - the generic shopkeeper for instance - they could quite easily swap some women into those roles. It's insidious - we've all been habituated into seeing only a small minority of women in what passes for the general public depicted in a film.

Firstly, what is wrong with being woke? It just means 'not a twat' as far as I can tell.

And secondly, there is nothing remotely new about fairy stories where women get rescued being considered a bit shit.

There is a difference between being woke and performative wokeness - which this seems to be. Let’s tick all the boxes we can - oh but not this or that one or we won’t be able to sell it in China/ME/India

and no one wants the princess being rescued trope but it would be good if they could think abit outside the stereotype box of the sassy kick ass princess as well and claim that this somehow makes it ‘modern’

The things is you're holding up the 1930s version as your ideal of this story because that's the version that you grew up watching. But that version is not the "original", it's a Disney version of a much older story that they themselves adapted for the audiences at the time. In fact, Disney added on that ending with the kiss. In the original they all think she's dead and grieve for ages, then as they're carrying away her coffin someone trips and the apple gets dislodged from her throat and she wakes up. Disney felt it was too macabre for a kids film, and added on the sleeping beauty true love kiss ending.

Does this change your opinion at all? Each era does its own thing to appeal to its audiences. I agree that the sassy American girl boss isn't for everyone, and it's boring when all the main characters are like that. But we also need to be careful about what we really consider to be the problem. In this case, it really isn't that they've messed around with the "original" it's more that they've taken out things that were themselves messing around with the original (and no doubt added their own slant, as always happens).

I have no issue with them doing a different take on the story (as you say - the cartoon was a take on the original) - it is the last sloppy way they are doing it. The Theron/Robert’s films dealt with this quite well I thought even if they weren’t great films (and you even got to see the evil queen dance to death so nods to the original)

The thing is fairytales were originally very much centred on the female experience, albeit in a patriarchal world. They deal with things like navigating rape and domestic abuse.
The problem with these ass kicking new women is, that's not a real solution in the world we currently live in. The original tales showed girls how to survive and sometimes best men in a man's world.
We need a fairytale that helps girls navigate and make sense of the world we live in. Not some fantasy one where problems are solved with a high kick.

@TrixieFatell @MojoDojoCasaHouse You're so right! I've never really noticed before that 'quiet heroine' was such a big thing for Ghibli but it explains why I love (most of) their films so much. As a shy person I never really identified with your typical sassy kick-ass leading ladies.

@FourTeaFallOut oh my goodness yes, I forgot about the tight outfits that every almighty powerful female must wear!

@calmcoco I think most people have a problem with "forced wokeness".
Putting Snow White aside, even the fact their not including dwarves and changing it to "magical people" or whatever if ridiculous, even many of the dwarf acting community are unhappy about it because, naturally, Snow White is a big role for them in the acting world

I would watch this.

They are such well rounded characters, each has her own set of attributes and none of it seems forced unlike Disney and Marvel characters. I struggle to have a favorite

The problem with being woke is when they are complaining about a Hawaiian actress not being Hawaiian enough to play Moana.

The "woke" refers to unnatural injection lf sociatal issue. Thwre are mamy movies and series who whose them natirally without the feelimg of beong lectured.
Modern family is my fave example. Uncoupled etc

Finally, someone said it!
Disney's 1930s version was a "woke" interpretation of a dark story! It needs modernising, simple as that really.
Why is it negative to keep having strong female leads? I'd much rather my dd watch these portrayals of what women can be, rather than the original Disney's that reinforced that only shy 'wilting flowers' got the guys or lived happily ever after. Some women are bolshy and loud and confident, and that's flipping wonderful and should be celebrated. And I'm not saying shy, quiet women shouldn't be, but they've had their moment. The confident women have always been portrayed as the evil ones...maleficent, Ursula etc it's about time the narrative was changed.

I don’t see being bolshy as a positive trait in either sex - although acknowledge it’s a term traditionally applied to women

also, the fight scenes give girls the impression they could fight off a gang of 6 burly men - or even just 1. My dds friends seem to think women can be as strong as men - Vanessa Kirby besting Dwayne Johnson in some film being one example. They need to understand that women need different methods and can’t just rely on brute force.

I would like to see these films with no gratuitous violence - big fight scenes are unnecessary and it would be much better to see conflict resolution without it!! Although I am thinking of the other 2 Snow White films - I don’t know if this new one is planning some fight scenes so I hope not!!

OP, big companies always ride the crest of the wave, not the growing wavelet. Loads of people are starting to talk about the value of being quiet and having average expectations of life, being allowed to be reasonably happy in an everyday job/home. The tide is turning towards genuine appreciation of the ordinary life. Disney will celebrate this in 2033.