The "strong female lead"

[Sarah5q]

Hi,
I'm basing this on reports about the new Snow White movie and how much the movie is being changed and it just got me thinking and I thought it'd be interesting to hear other people's opinions or perspectives.

I am a big fan of the original Snow White. She was my favourite princess growing up and I find it a shame that the story has been belittled in the upcoming movie. Yes, she was kissed by a prince at the end but surely the main concept of the film is kindness and her friendship with the dwarves?

This post could be super long if I wrote all my details but why does every female these days need to have a "strong" and "powerful " story?
What is wrong with being the "shy, quiet" one? Surely you can still be "powerful" in other ways.

And in the interviews, the actors are saying "Snow white won't be saved by a prince". Fair enough, it was all a bit quick. But rather than change that aspect entirely, why not just "fill out" the story and develop the relationship of snow white and the prince.
There are some women out there who do dream of having that family-lifestyle and having their happily every-after with their "prince charming". Not every woman wants to be that 'female boss" narrative that seems to be going around in Hollywood.

Maybe I'm completely missing the point or maybe I'm speaking rubbish and make no sense but I think I'm just tired of having that "girl boss" narrative rammed down my throat as if wanting to be anything other than that is "dated".

I think that the Disney remakes have been a waste of time and don't add anything to the original animated stories.
It would be very interesting if they'd moved closer to the source material with a 15 or 18 rating but they've wasted an opportunity to be revolutionary and gone down the woke road. I mean woke as in white Democrat Americans not woke as in the original meaning. I think that it will be another flop but I guess that they can afford it.

Ah Disney where women can now be portrayed as strong, independent people....unless of course the woman happens to be a step-mother, then it's just the same old, same old "evil witch" trope.

So they come here for their inspiration you mean? 😀

Also, if they put more than one girl in each movie they wouldn't need her to be good at everything.
That's how male characters work. One whose strength is humour. One whose strength is brains. One whose strength is bravery. One whose strength is kindness.

Women should not have to be everything all the time. The Barbie movie got that right.

@HowDoYouSolveAProblemLikeMariaa you summarised my post perfectly!

@Elsiebear90 but the "strong and powerful" narrative has also become one dimensional.
It seems modern Disney sees strong and powerful as a woman beating up a group of men 5x stronger than her all by herself, being sassy, not needing any help of anybody, totally independent - and extremely unrealistic.

And yes, of course the "damsel in distress" waiting on her prince can be said to be outdated but balance it out.
There's nothing wrong with a female dreaming of marriage. I am in my mid 20s and a lot of my friends current conversations are guessing when our partners will propose, wedding plannings, talking about dating apps etc. but we also talk about jobs, university, aspirations. I just wish this narrative of "we don't need no man" would stop as if it's wrong to want marriage.

Instead of 'we don't need no man', it can easily be 'we don't need no man, but we want a loving, healthy relationship'.

Just isn't quite as catchy...

Also sneering about marriage also hides it's true purpose, protecting women when they are financially vulnerable after having children.

Also the whole way the relationship starts with sniping and one upmanship and clever retorts and probably a fight where she beats him before of course they fall in love.

Well I guess it's about why you dream of marriage ?

Do you think men are dreaming the same dreams ? If not why not?

Your dreams or marriage are partly a result of the environment you grew up in which promotes marriage to girls in a way it doesn't to boys

And that is seen as detrimental to women

So yes you have those dreams and that's fine but as a whole , those dreams may be limiting what girls and women do with their lives

So yes less princess being rescued ans married and the rest of their life dismissed as all lived happily ever after is probably a good thing long term

Can you give some examples, admittedly I’m not a Disney fan, but the few new Disney films I’ve seen recently don’t seem any more far fetched or one dimensional than what I’ve always seen with Disney. I thought Moana and Cruella were both interesting and very different multidimensional characters. Sleeping beauty was a good example of a film being tweaked for a modern audience I felt.

Again, this has been done much better in the nineties.
Princess Anastasia was smart and sassy, but open about seeking love and her family. She was saved by Dimetri and she then saved him (but without any super human strength) Both characters only fell in love when they learned to appreciate eachother, flaws and strengths.

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea yes exactly! Snow White's"someday my prince will come" can easily be combined with Snow White being kind, befriending the dwarves who were "outcasts", staying positive etc.
A woman wanting a "prince" and a "happily ever after" can also be a woman with high aspirations and independent traits

Or if they do it’s not because they are absolute geniuses or take off their glasses and ‘gee Mary, you are so beautiful…’. Just normal folk..

@kelsaycobbles educate me if I'm missing something and I'm genuinely not being passive aggressive here but how are my dreams of marriage detrimental to me?

I have always wanted to be proposed to. Don't ask me why, but since I was little, I've wanted a church wedding. My friends are the same. We even get giddy for each other when marriage is on the cards.
My boyfriend and I have been together for 5 years. He has always been my rock and helped me through hard times as I have him. He's my "go to" person.
The thought of marrying him makes me feel extremely happy but I'm definitely not a damsel in distress

In the original Mulan, Mulan is a normal, slightly clumsy but adventurous and good hearted girl. She's not a warrior. Her father is elderly and called off for war. She knows he won't survive so despite being scared and knowing she may die in war or if discovered she takes his place. She learns how to keep up with the men not by super human strength but by brains. Both in training and in war. As a side note the only person who doesn't underestimate her because she is a woman is the Hun enemy. He wants to kill her just as much when he realises she's a woman.

In thw new Mulan she's got super chi powers. Can do all these backflips and flying and stuff. Goes to war. Beats everyone up. She's good at everything.

She has no obstacle to overcome and no personal growth. She's not even brave because bravery requires fear.

There are plenty of films with the narrative you describe and as a married woman with children I am not affronted by there being different narratives. I haven’t seen any films where the woman beats up 5 bad guys and doesn’t need any men or are totally independent. I loved the little mermaid remake it was great with beautiful feminine lead who gets the guy but was also intelligent and funny. DC complained there was to much romance and not enough fighting the giant octopus.

I'm just holding out for the handsome but hapless prince gets rescued by the princess movie.

I get sick of the woman always being the damsel in distress waiting for a big macho man to come and save her.

Enchanted and Once Upon a Time did this.

Also Ghostbusters and Barbie

YES - The Critical Drinker on You Tube has made a couple videos about this very phenomenon. One about the whole 'Strong female lead' thing in general and one about the Snow White remake. Completely sums up how I've been feeling about this for some time, but much better than I ever could!

I think the whole 'strong female lead' thing has been going on for quite a few years now and it is just boring.

I haven’t seen any films where the woman beats up 5 bad guys and doesn’t need any men or are totally independent

Really? It's a standard narrative tool that transcends genres...Hanna, Black Widow, Ava, that Battle Angel manga thing, Captain Marvel, Atomic Blonde, Promising Young Woman, ...

@HowDoYouSolveAProblemLikeMariaa

Yes but in Enchanted, he also had to save her with Love's true kiss.

Once upon a time is a tv series. I meant more in films. 99.99% of the time, it is men playing the knight in shining armour, while the woman wrings her hands and pulls worried faces.

She doesn't have to be some sassy bagasse who beats several people who are five times stronger than her. She can be quiet with a backbone, and trick the bad guys and escape from them with her intelligence, wit, quick thinking etc.

I came on to say about Studio Ghibli. Massive fans in this house and I love how they have a female lead that doesn't need to be a certain way or needs to be rescued by a man. We don't watch much Disney here.